Opened A Xbox To Find A Hitachi-lg Dvdrom, **MERGED TOPICS** Options

[Tiros]

From your post it is clear that you don't understand electronics.  The signal comming from the read, tray-in, tray-out, and eject points are not digital.  There is no data being digitally transmitted through these signals.  These signals only put out either positive voltage or 0 volts.  Using an OP AMP on this circuit makes perfect sence.  We have not explored every option, but the OP AMP is clearly one of the best ideas.  If you can think of something that is smaller or simpler, name it.

How can you EVEN SAY that the signals are NOT DIGITAL!!!!
And you say "I" don't understand electronics!!!
You say yourself that the signals only put out positive voltage or 0 volts!
That is the DEFINITION of digital signaling (1 or 0). Do you have ANY education on this topic?

You say there is "NO DATA" being sent? What do you think those LOGIC LEVELS represent!! Answer: They are digital signals (bits) conveying the data of Tray Status and Ready to the control microprocessor. OK they are only 2 or 3 bits, but they sure ARE digital data. If they weren't how could the control processor read them without performing (unnecessary) AtoD conversion?

An OpAmp does not make "perfect sence".
It's just the only chip YOU know about.

BTW: I just did "Name It"! 74HCT14!!

At least one "developer" here has stated "keep it to yourself". Now YOU challenge MY technical ability. It seems to me you two guys just don't want anyone playing in your sandbox. There were initially plenty of people flashing the 605 firmware into the 615T, but only one solved the hardware problem and got it to work properly! ME
You can either keep an open mind or bury your head in the sand!

This post has been edited by Tiros: Mar 18 2005, 08:27 PM

[pxpx]

This may be a noob post, and I'm sorry but I don't have time to read close to 30 pages of this thread, my question is simple and i'm sure one of you guys can easily answer it. is all this wiring needed or just desireable, i mean once the drive has been flashed could i put it in to the xbox and use a power splitter to supply power to the drive and use the drives stock eject buttons rather than the xbox eject button?

[LenteSubigo]

How can you EVEN SAY that the signals are NOT DIGITAL!!!!
And you say "I" don't understand electronics!!!
You say yourself that the signals only put out positive voltage or 0 volts!
That is the DEFINITION of digital signaling (1 or 0). Do you have ANY education on this topic?

You say there is "NO DATA" being sent? What do you think those LOGIC LEVELS represent!! Answer: They are digital signals (bits) conveying the data of Tray Status and Ready to the control microprocessor. OK they are only 2 or 3 bits, but they sure ARE digital data. If they weren't how could the control processor read them without performing (unnecessary) AtoD conversion?

An OpAmp does not make "perfect sence".
It's just the only chip YOU know about.

BTW: I just did "Name It"! 74HCT14!!

At least one "developer" here has stated "keep it to yourself". Now YOU challenge MY technical ability. It seems to me you two guys just don't want anyone playing in your sandbox. There were initially plenty of people flashing the 605 firmware into the 615T, but only one solved the hardware problem and got it to work properly! ME
You can either keep an open mind or bury your head in the sand!

Ok, here is the deal, we only want your help if you are willing to stop being a total ass hole. I don't give a rats ass about what you have done. And finding a few signals on a 616t isn't that tough, especially considering 3 of the 4 signals were clearly labeled, and they were all perfect to begin with. If you want to help stop flamming everyone and post helpful info without any bs attached to it. Now, the question is whey is the OP AMP bad? If it puts out the proper voltage at the proper times it would seem to be working exactly as we want it to. If your solution will work better in any way, post why it would work better, how it would work better, and compair the price and availability at radio shack.

I have an open mind, but you haven't said much except flamming. Lets hear more about this part of yours, and less of the worthless bs. Lets work together, and do like mommy said "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

Here are most important things to keep in mind when making the circuit.
1. Small
2. Cheap
3. Simple
4. Works (doesn't matter how it works, just that it works correctly 100% of the time)
5. All parts available at Radio Shack or similar

[Tiros]

Ok, here is the deal, we only want your help if you are willing to stop being a total ass hole.  I don't give a rats ass about what you have done.  And finding a few signals on a 616t isn't that tough, especially considering 3 of the 4 signals were clearly labeled, and they were all perfect to begin with.  If you want to help stop flamming everyone and post helpful info without any bs attached to it.  Now, the question is whey is the OP AMP bad?  If it puts out the proper voltage at the proper times it would seem to be working exactly as we want it to.  If your solution will work better in any way, post why it would work better, how it would work better, and compair the price and availability at radio shack.

I have an open mind, but you haven't said much except flamming.  Lets hear more about this part of yours, and less of the worthless bs.  Lets work together, and do like mommy said "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all."

Here are most important things to keep in mind when making the circuit.
1.  Small
2.  Cheap
3.  Simple
4.  Works (doesn't matter how it works, just that it works correctly 100% of the time)
5.  All parts available at Radio Shack or similar

You are the a** hole my friend!
I'm not flaming everyone, I'm just responding to self righteous "know it alls" who by thier very own posts, prove they don't know shi* about hardware design.
Maybe YOU and Wenid don't want my help, but I doubt you speak for everyone when you tell me what the "deal" is gonna be here. All you have done is flash the drive, the easy part, BFD! Everybody got that far on the 615. If you and your sidekick both quit right now, the hack WILL survive without you.

You attack me for not knowing what I am talking about, I explain where YOU are wrong, ('Not digital signals', LMAO), and you are SILENT on that topic. Instead you choose to flame me and trivialize MY PROVEN accomplishment. Thats all you CAN do because YOU WERE WRONG!!

If you can't figure out how to invert a signal with one chip and no external parts, I will explain it to you. If you think an OpAmp with external resistors is a cleaner, smaller, more dependable design use it. If you do, why not explain why or STFU? When you made this post, you already had my part number, and my post that no other parts are required. So why don't/didn't you tell ME why I am wrong again!

Now without sarcasm I ask you:
Do you need me to outline how to use the 74HCT14 or the 74HCT04?
Do you need assistance to find the "ready" point?

[twistedsymphony]

Can people here start actually listening to what others are saying instead of thinking that any suggestion other than what they're currently doing is personal insult? Seriously!

I posted, gave my props to all those who put in hard work (wenid included)

Then I though I might help out by starting a discussion on the inverting issue and I was completely dumped on by wenid as if I just killed his first born or something.(having read though this whole thread he's treated most everyone else the same way at one point or another, you included LenteSubigo)

I see Tiros TRYING to do the same thing and getting the same response.

You should listen to him and take what he's saying as a FRIENDLY SUGGESTION or CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Just because he's offering an alternative doesn't mean he's trying to insult you... he's trying to help.

He is completely correct in saying that the ready signal is in fact digital, sure it's an extremely low bandwidth digital signal, but digital none the less. There are many many reasons deeply rooted in electrical engineering on why using something like an op-amp in a digital circuit can be a bad idea. What is so difficult about humoring a suggestion from a knowledgeable source? We shouldn't have to provide you with an education every time we make a suggestion. If you're curious as to why we're making a suggestion... Just ask...

If you would like some reasons on why an op amp is not desirable in a digital circuit it mostly boils down to dependability. Unless you're working with very accurate values as in highly accurate resistors and a highly accurate input voltage (which we don't know if we are or not) the results from the op-amp can vary from setup to setup or even with temperature. This means that you might get 4.9V out of it and someone else might get 5.2 that extra voltage or lack of voltage over time could be damaging to the Xbox, and where no one really knows how susceptible the Xbox is to those sort of things it's probably best to avoid it. Also Op-amps (especially slow cheap ones) being analog in nature tend to swing while moving high to low as opposed to the clean step you get with digital logic, resulting in a floating voltage area during the switch. In most cases this will be quick enough that it wont really matter but we don't really know how the Xbox will deal with this sort of thing. If the response time is quick enough it could potentially cause it "bounce" between reading it high and low which can be extremely damaging. Finally I've found op-amps to be particularly unpredictable in terms of failures, wiring it incorrectly or having something attached to it fail and you could find it cooking it self or whatever it's attached to, I've had several op-amp projects go up in smoke when placing a wire or resistor in the wrong place.

Digital logic on the other hand is typically difficult to mess up and provides much cleaner signals. I can respect the creativity with using an op-amp in this fashion but I certainly wouldn't use it in my Xbox.

[heraldoffailure]

Well said Twisted...

I think everyone is doing an amazing job, although there's some bickering, doesn't that just fire you all up to better your ideas? Anyway great work everyone, you're all true assets to the scene. Can't wait for the full tut.

[LenteSubigo]

You are the a** hole my friend!
I'm not flaming everyone, I'm just responding to self righteous "know it alls" who by thier very own posts, prove they don't know shi* about hardware design.
Maybe YOU and Wenid don't want my help, but I doubt you speak for everyone when you tell me what the "deal" is gonna be here. All you have done is flash the drive, the easy part, BFD! Everybody got that far on the 615. If you and your sidekick both quit right now, the hack WILL survive without you.

You attack me for not knowing what I am talking about, I explain where YOU are wrong, ('Not digital signals', LMAO), and you are SILENT on that topic. Instead you choose to flame me and trivialize MY PROVEN accomplishment. Thats all you CAN do because YOU WERE WRONG!!

If you can't figure out how to invert a signal with one chip and no external parts, I will explain it to you. If you think an OpAmp with external resistors is a cleaner, smaller, more dependable design use it. If you do, why not explain why or STFU? When you made this post, you already had my part number, and my post that no other parts are required. So why don't/didn't you tell ME why I am wrong again!

Now without sarcasm I ask you:
Do you need me to outline how to use the 74HCT14 or the 74HCT04?
Do you need assistance to find the "ready" point?

If you really want a responce on the digital issue I can make one. I don't want to switch this thread into a debate thread, I want to get on with the work in a reasonable way. I am not a dumb ass, and I am trying not to be an asshole. I am simply saying that wiring up a 616t is not difficult when compaired to making a circuit to allow the proper outputs on a 8163b. I want everyone to post their ideas, but when you post your idea, don't just give us a part number, give us a reason why your circuit may be better then the other circuits that we are trying(price, size, availability, simplicity, ect). How is it better? And don't attack other solutions. There is nothing wrong with using an OP AMP, if the outputs of then OP AMP are what we need, there is no reason to attack it.

Do you need me to outline how to use the 74HCT14 or the 74HCT04?
Do you need assistance to find the "ready" point?

For your first question, no, but why do you think it is a better choice than the OP AMP:
Does it require less wires?
Is it smaller or cheaper?
Can it perform both of the operations we need it to? (inverting and amplifying)
What makes it a better solution?

For your second question, if you think you can find a better ready point than wenid then, yes we would like you to help us find the better ready point.



So, post your circuit ideas, but include some more info than just a part number. Why is it better?


As to wenid, he isn't always the most politicly correct, and purposefully kind as he could be. I remember the responce you are refering to (where is wan't so kind to me.) But, he is doing alot of hard work, and spending his own money ($100's) to help us out. With this knowledge, I am willing to overlook a few minorly unkind comments, and give him the respect that is due. The fact is that this project would never have gotten this far without him extracting the firmware through the use of expensive hardware. There are 3 partys that have gotten this project to the point it is at now: Myself(LenteSubigo), Wenid, and a 3rd party who wants to remain anonymous.

Lets make sure we have the best signal points, and then the best circuit to achieve the correct signals.

I apologize to anyone who was offended by me in the past, including someone who pm'd me when I was in a bad mood, and tiros, who I called an asshole. I just want to put all the attacks aside and only post constructivly.

This post has been edited by LenteSubigo: Mar 19 2005, 12:04 AM

[ruta69]

Hi
I have flashed my unit GDR-8163B whit the file GDR-8050L0012.EXE my unit is now 8050L. but is possible returns to
GDR-8163B? I have tried the file GDR-8163B0L23.exe but ever say "this program can't be used for the selected device."
Thanks
bye

This post has been edited by ruta69: Mar 19 2005, 12:22 AM

[Tiros]

If you really want a responce on the digital issue I can make one.  And don't attack other solutions.  There is nothing wrong with using an OP AMP, if the outputs of then OP AMP are what we need, there is no reason to attack it.

Thank You Twisted!
See Len, it's like this, your idea wasn't under "attack". That's where your gettin' jammed up. If you and wenid hadn't jumped to defend something you don't really understand, this whole nastiness would have been avoided.
wenid doesn't understand
lente doesn't understand

More to the point:
The 74HCT14 or 74HCT04 will require less wires.
It is a common part that costs less than $1.00
It will require no resistors.
It will consistantly output the correct voltage levels for the Xbox.
The OpAmp will have a lower VOH than the either part.
The OpAmp will have a higher VOL than either part.
Note:The original developer said his VOL was 1.2V but seemed to work. Not good!
Biasing the OpAmp at 1/2 VCC will result in a threshold voltage higher than either part.
Either part meets all worst case I/O thresholds better than the OpAmp.
There will be less support since all DIGITAL circuits behave the same.

Unused outputs need no connection.
For 100% safety unused inputs can be tied to VCC or GND thru a busswire running along the bottom of the chip. Just bend the unused input pins under the chip and solder to the bus wire.

Lente said:
"If you really want a responce on the digital issue I can make one. "
Please do, I have an open mind

This post has been edited by Tiros: Mar 19 2005, 12:54 AM

[Maverick-DBZ-]

P.S.  I have confirmed that the firmware flasher is working on all drives tested so far. 

P.P.S.  For those who have received the firmware flasher from me, please send me a pm/email with your results, as well as your drives ROM VERS and manufacturing date.

What drives have you tested so far? I'll be getting 3 GDR-8163b drives in the mail soon from newegg.


I'll PM you my results, but I didn't get the flasher from you, but I'm guessing it's the same one I got of xbins.

[LenteSubigo]

What drives have you tested so far? I'll be getting 3 GDR-8163b drives in the mail soon from newegg.
I'll PM you my results, but I didn't get the flasher from you, but I'm guessing it's the same one I got of xbins.

Yes, the flasher is now on xbins. I had sent it in for submission, but I hadn't been responded to. They must have just added it today.

Drives tested on:
I don't have any info, I have asked 3 people who received the firmware, but they never responded with drive info. So, all I know is that 3 out of 3 have found it to work.

Before you flash your drive:
Remember, that we haven't created a flashing program to flash back to 8163b, and the original program to flash 8163b firmware doesn't work on a drive with the 8050l firmware. So, at this time, once your drive is flashed with 8050l firmware, their is no known software method to flash it again. So it will be stuck with 8050l firmware.

[maximilian0017]

well ok, Lets use a 74HCT04 then, its high at 2v and its low on 0,8 at vcc 4,5-5,5V is perfect, no way near 3,22V

The '05 has the advantage that ANY 74x05 will do. Not so the '04s -- it's gotta be an HCT. I don't know how easy they are to come by, but neither of the local electronics shops here have them. (I didn't notice when I looked at the datasheet before that there were separate pages for the HC and the HCT for some some of the spec's -- sorry about that).

I had this discussion on page 24 of this tread with Wenid, as you can see of the above quote he could't get the part as easely at that time, thats reason enough i think to think of something else(op-amps)
On page 23 there's even a scematic he made that almost fits the bill for the 74HCT04
(And yes i know,if i had more time the 74HCT04 would be up and running here)

We could probably get that lg spinning inside an xbox using nano technoligy or tubes out of an old radio but that's not the point, lets make 2 complete guides, tested and working, the builder himself/herself can pick one.

Everyone is doing a great job at pulling resources towards this, and if everything goes according to plan we'll al have lg drives working soon, thats the point of al of this.

Maby we'll even hack the firmware to get it to read cd-r's, i'm sure that a certain somebody can make this work.

[Tiros]

The "acid test" for the 616 was to:
1) Power up xbox with xbox eject button, tray is now open.
Press the "off" button. The tray closes THEN the xbox powers off.
2) An original game can start normally, open or closed.

Please post results of this test

[truBB]

I havn't given up yet.
I started over, to verify all my connections, all my traces.

LG dvdrom:
LDin to GND = 0 ohms completely open; otherwise infinite
LDout to GND = 0 ohms when tray is closed & laser is in read position. Otherwise infinite.
Eject to GND = 0 ohms when pressing Eject button.

Powered up, turned on, nothing connected.
LDin
closed=0
opening=0
open=3.3vdc

LDout
closed=0
opening=3.3vdc
open=3.3vdc

HFMDRY no dvd-r in tray
closed=0
opening=0
open=0

HFMDRY Slayer's dvd-r in tray (ritek)
closed=5vdc
opening=0
open=0

NOTE: HFMDRY was jumpin a bit around 0 anywhere to 1.5vdc during init, even when there was no dvd-r in the tray.

Does this seem right to you?

[valko]

Hi everybody.

I'm a french xbox user, and i come from the french site www.gueux.be

I'm trying to do a test for the Hitachi-LG flashing firmware, but i'm asking me some questions.

Do i have only to put my f*cking Hitachi in my PC, and run the flashing program with the .bin firmware? If it's only that, thanks you a lot, i'll do this as soon i could.

But if no, could you say to me... 'cause I don't understand everything here and i don't have so much time u see !

So... greats thanks and see you soon.

PS : Do anyone flash his Hitachi here? Does it works? Does it read original games?

Thanks. ++