Trainers On Xbox Live?, possible cheats Options

[Ridley]

Sometimes trainers can be used online, does xbox live check for this or not? Like someone using the Halo trainer?

Most trainers just NOP out an ASM instruction like stopping ammo from decreasing...etc. But other trainers use elaborate code injection into empty parts of the code that may not be detected online.

I don't think Xbox games use DMA (Dynamic Memory Allocation) either, which makes them easier to hack and create trainers ..etc

This post has been edited by Ridley: Mar 2 2003, 07:24 AM

[Cheerio]

ummm....you need the games copied to HD, so therefore, no.

[Ridley]

QUOTE (Cheerio @ Mar 2 2003, 08:26 AM)

ummm....you need the games copied to HD, so therefore, no.

Well, what about Xbox connect?

[Cheerio]

QUOTE (Ridley @ Mar 2 2003, 02:29 AM)

QUOTE (Cheerio @ Mar 2 2003, 08:26 AM) ummm....you need the games copied to HD, so therefore, no. Well, what about Xbox connect?

theoretically, but i know for a fact halo trainer doesnt unless all players have it, and have it turned on.


and you could patch it to dvd, but you need originals for live.

[jasonmvt]

yes, you can cheat on xbconnect, but only if everyone else in the game is using the same cheats. Cheating on live is just f'd up. Why would you want to ruin it?

[Mage]

First off, the only way you're going to get to cheat on xbl currently will be to have a local computer on your network inject/modify packets. Even if you could play a game off the hard drive, with a signed dash, by modifying the xbe of the game would invalidate the signature of the xbe, making a non-chipped xbox reject it anyway. Same with shifting between media...so fat chance for now.
If the keys used to sign are released anytime soon (and i hope not), then this will be a different situation

BTW, DMA normally standards for Direct Memory Access, I never see people use DMA for talking about variables on the heap.

[Ridley]

QUOTE (Cheerio @ Mar 2 2003, 08:31 AM)

QUOTE (Ridley @ Mar 2 2003, 02:29 AM) QUOTE (Cheerio @ Mar 2 2003, 08:26 AM) ummm....you need the games copied to HD, so therefore, no. Well, what about Xbox connect? theoretically, but i know for a fact halo trainer doesnt unless all players have it, and have it turned on. and you could patch it to dvd, but you need originals for live.

Are there any memory searching programs for the xbox that have a built-in debugger? Like TSearch for the PC.

I am not sure how people like Action Replay and Gameshark find their codes, but it probably involves a debugger of some kind.

This post has been edited by Ridley: Mar 2 2003, 07:36 AM

[Ridley]

QUOTE (jasonmvt @ Mar 2 2003, 08:31 AM)

yes, you can cheat on xbconnect, but only if everyone else in the game is using the same cheats.  Cheating on live is just f'd up.  Why would you want to ruin it?

This is not always the case, well with PC games anyway. Sometimes one person can have a modified game and still play online, I think it has to do with not destroying any of the original code but rather borrowing a JMP to inject your own code and then using another JMP instruction back to the original code. But your own code has to be placed in an empty memory location.

Also, if you had a memory searcher you could search for the in-game value for ammo for example on your xbox and then Freeze that value. This would allow you to continue playing online as you have not modified any of the actual game code, but just frozen a value in memory.

note: I don't support cheating online, I just have some experience with PC trainers.

This post has been edited by Ridley: Mar 2 2003, 07:51 AM

[Mage]

The only time you could modify your client and have it affect the other clients is if the protocol is peer-to-peer. If the game, like most modern games, are based on a client/server method, it doesn't matter what your client thinks. All that matters is what the server says is the case. If game developers assume the game is tamper proof due to the fact that you cannot modify the games directly on the xbox (for playing on live), then they're taking a big risk.
However, due to the fact that protocol hacking is program specific, I doubt many people care to waste much time doing it to games where they see no potential profit. For example, most MMORPGs you can make money off of, so the incentive for being able to have an advantage over another player is profit. That isn't always the case, but interesting enough, most games I see much protocol hacking going on always have the ability to make money off them.

[Ridley]

QUOTE (Mage @ Mar 2 2003, 08:54 AM)

The only time you could modify your client and have it affect the other clients is if the protocol is peer-to-peer. If the game, like most modern games, are based on a client/server method, it doesn't matter what your client thinks. All that matters is what the server says is the case. If game developers assume the game is tamper proof due to the fact that you cannot modify the games directly on the xbox (for playing on live), then they're taking a big risk. However, due to the fact that protocol hacking is program specific, I doubt many people care to waste much time doing it to games where they see no potential profit. For example, most MMORPGs you can make money off of, so the incentive for being able to have an advantage over another player is profit. That isn't always the case, but interesting enough, most games I see much protocol hacking going on always have the ability to make money off them.

You're right, it all depends wether the value you want to hack is stored on the client or the server. I know some PC games that have some values on the client and some on the server, this allows you to tamper with values on your client.

One could always use a packet filter to try and spoof the server, but that requires a lot of studying time.

[jasonmvt]

QUOTE

This is not always the case, well with PC games anyway. Sometimes one person can have a modified game and still play online, I think it has to do with not destroying any of the original code but rather borrowing a JMP to inject your own code and then using another JMP instruction back to the original code. But your own code has to be placed in an empty memory location.

i think you misunderstood me. The idea behind it is what is fucked up. I'm not really sure what your stance on the issue is based on what you have stated, so I won't direct this at you personally... but people who cheat in online games are losers, period. I can apreciate the science behind the hack, but the actual implementation of it for so called personal gain is a joke. How pathetic is someone who must break the 'rules' to achieve some sense of accomplishment in a video game! I really never play much online, and only use live periodically, but everyone knows what cheaters can do to ruin the experiences for everyone else (ex: Diablo, Counterstrike, etc...) I would very much like to see Live succeed. It means more Xbox revenues, and a higher installed user base -which prolongs the system's shelf life and ensures future iterations. As soon as cheating becomes common place on live's servers, the news will spread well beyond the scope of live - the media, who is so adamantly anti-MS, will make sure every person who hasn't found out first hand, knows. Thus, severely crippling the service, and the xbox itself. I always am fascinated by those who are able to circumvent technology's boundaries. That fascination ends when it begins to ruin something.

[Ridley]

QUOTE (jasonmvt @ Mar 2 2003, 09:02 AM)

QUOTE This is not always the case, well with PC games anyway. Sometimes one person can have a modified game and still play online, I think it has to do with not destroying any of the original code but rather borrowing a JMP to inject your own code and then using another JMP instruction back to the original code. But your own code has to be placed in an empty memory location. i think you misunderstood me. The idea behind it is what is fucked up. I'm not really sure what your stance on the issue is based on what you have stated, so I won't direct this at you personally... but people who cheat in online games are losers, period. I can apreciate the science behind the hack, but the actual implementation of it for so called personal gain is a joke. How pathetic is someone who must break the 'rules' to achieve some sense of accomplishment in a video game! I really never play much online, and only use live periodically, but everyone knows what cheaters can do to ruin the experiences for everyone else (ex: Diablo, Counterstrike, etc...) I would very much like to see Live succeed. It means more Xbox revenues, and a higher installed user base -which prolongs the system's shelf life and ensures future iterations. As soon as cheating becomes common place on live's servers, the news will spread well beyond the scope of live - the media, who is so adamantly anti-MS, will make sure every person who hasn't found out first hand, knows. Thus, severely crippling the service, and the xbox itself. I always am fascinated by those who are able to circumvent technology's boundaries. That fascination ends when it begins to ruin something.

I agree 100%.

However, I think we are all mature enough here to discuss this without it getting out of hand.

This post has been edited by Ridley: Mar 2 2003, 08:05 AM

[Mage]

QUOTE (Ridley @ Mar 2 2003, 12:58 AM)

One could always use a packet filter to try and spoof the server, but that requires a lot of studying time.

Spoofing the server would require the ability to correctly predict tcp ack values the server is using. With any modern stack, the possilbity of successfully generating the ack more then one time is beyond the billions

There is another method for modifying values I didn't mention, tapping the bus with a high speed device. The costs, and abilities alone make it so I doubt anything who could do it would waste their time fscking with games.

[Mage]

QUOTE (jasonmvt @ Mar 2 2003, 01:02 AM)

but people who cheat in online games are losers, period.

There is a better reason people hacked, that being money. If I was to make money off a game, and a hack enabled me to increase my productivity, eg increase profits, I wouldn't mind the hack at all.

[jasonmvt]

QUOTE

I agree 100%. However, I think we are all mature enough to discuss this without it getting out of hand.

agreed. But you did edit your post to include the sentiment that you were against online cheating after i was posting my response. So without that addition, you can see why I responded the way I did. Anyway, from a strictly educational point of view, I can respect your interest.