Add Any Extra Button To Xbox 360 Wireless Controller Options

[sp3cialk]

Here is a pic of what my friend did with his. The switch is actually for switching one of the add-on buttons function from like A to B (not sure if that's what they really switch just an example.)

[Bg360]

I have been experiencing a curious mannerism since I wired up several buttons on a (wired) controller so that I could actuate the buttons through use of another device. Even with this other device disconnected, once the console launches and if I leave the controller without touching it with the current focus on say the Xbox Live menu screen, every now and then the menu will change all by itself as if some spurious signal was being received. The movement through the menus can be up one, followed by another up movement, or it may be left or right (as if the D-pad up, down, left, right were being pushed).

Again, I'm not touching anything when this happens. Usually there is a significant pause between these events.

Could there be something that I may have messed up in my board/wire soldering? An ideas as to what may be causeing this?

[gskellig]

Anybody have a good button they use for their 360 controllers? Something that feels as much like the A, B, X, Y buttons as possible?
I've been looking around on mouser and some other sites and found this (http://www3.alps.co.jp/WebObjects/catalog....t/SKRA/SKRA.PDF)
It's rubber so it'll be comfortable. They're like 20 cents each it can't hurt to buy a few.

I'm also going to practice on some vias before attempting the 360 controller.

Thanks for the diagram RDC.
Any other tips would be awesome.

This post has been edited by gskellig: Sep 20 2007, 07:27 PM

[RDC]

I have been experiencing a curious mannerism since I wired up several buttons on a (wired) controller so that I could actuate the buttons through use of another device. Even with this other device disconnected, once the console launches and if I leave the controller without touching it with the current focus on say the Xbox Live menu screen, every now and then the menu will change all by itself as if some spurious signal was being received. The movement through the menus can be up one, followed by another up movement, or it may be left or right (as if the D-pad up, down, left, right were being pushed).

Again, I'm not touching anything when this happens. Usually there is a significant pause between these events.

Could there be something that I may have messed up in my board/wire soldering? An ideas as to what may be causeing this?

Without seeing or knowing what you wired up to the controller that's impossible to say. If you've wired up just other buttons, then there's no reason for it to act that way unless something was done wrong there. If you have something like Transistors or some other type or electronic switches wired up to do the pressing then the problem is most likely there. Is it also possible this controller isn't causing this issue? have you had the 360 on with it unplugged and know it's the problem?

Anybody have a good button they use for their 360 controllers? Something that feels as much like the A, B, X, Y buttons as possible?
I've been looking around on mouser and some other sites and found this (http://www3.alps.co.jp/WebObjects/catalog....t/SKRA/SKRA.PDF)
It's rubber so it'll be comfortable. They're like 20 cents each it can't hurt to buy a few.

I'm also going to practice on some vias before attempting the 360 controller.

Thanks for the diagram RDC.
Any other tips would be awesome.

You're Welcome. There really isn't anything comparable to the stock buttons as far as that 'soft feel' goes that is also still small enough to work in the controllers in a bunch of places. Those switches there are still tact switches and are still going to have that 'click' feel to them when pushed, just with a rubber actuator is all, and that type may give ya a headache since that rubber is going to expand when pushed on and may lead to it binding up in the shell every now and then, just depends on how ya drill the hole for them. They're also not going to work because they're too short, ya need ones with a 7mm height.

[Bg360]

The controller is wired to support my project (RCM, Remote Controller Management Project). This link has pictures of the project and shows which button locations I soldered the wires to. The wires connect on the other end to ports on an electromechanical relay. It all works pretty well together except for this peculiar problem.

I have launched the console without the wired controller board attached and the console does not manifest this behavior. I also launched the console with the wired controller board connected, but with the relay powered down. The problem still appeared.

My diagnosis of the problem actually began with disconnecting the major components until I determined that the problem is in the controller boards. I suppose I may have to start over with the board and wire up another one, but before I do I thought I'd check with you 'all and see if this behavior has ever shown itself before.

[RDC]

There are 3 versions of the 360 controllers so far, Wired, Wireless (matrix setup) and Wireless (common ground setup) and ya could have done that whole thing with only 11 wires attached to the board.

I see the Triggers were ripped off and no 10k Resistors in their place to compensate. That's more than likely where the funky behavior is coming from.

[Bg360]

Thanks RDC. I recall reading about the trigger/resistor issue and I'll get them installed and let you/everyone know whether that corrects the problem.

Appreciate your review and comments.

[Bg360]

I added the two resistors at the locations shown in other posts on this web site. Unfortunately I must have messed up because other buttons ceased working after the operation including the D-pad Down-button.

So at this point I'm ready to start again with a new board, but this time leave the triggers in their place. Who knows what damage I did pulling the triggers off the current board...

Thanks for your help RDC.

[RDC]

It doesn't cause any real damage having the Triggers removed, just makes the controller 'act up' most times since it causes those analog lines to float. Unless ya actually knocked off some small SMT part(s) around them when removing them or bridged something when installing the Resistors, that board should still be in good order.

[Bg360]

Thanks RDC, but in this case it looks like I did some damage as the middle hole is completely stripped of solder. Even though I had added the two resistors as suggested the same behavior continued.

So I got another controller and performed the same wiring job again. This time I left the triggers on. At one point the right bumper switch stopped working altogether. This was about the time that I was wiring the Up and Down D-pad buttons.

I read somewhere here that there is a common ground for these but I don't understand how the right bumper would stop working altogether. So I removed the wires connected to the D-pad connect points that I had soldered. I also carefully checked around the switch for any slopped solder. The right bumper switch still does not work, so I may have damaged a trace somewhere.

Another (self-inflicted) problem with this project is that I have been using the wires from inside CAT-5 cabling that I had. It is larger than the 30AGW that I read last night is suggested so it has been a constant struggle to gingerly move the wires around as I work on different parts of the board.

If I have to do this project again I will use the smaller wire. It looks also that the 30AGW wire is single-stranded which should also make soldering MUCH less difficult, especially for smaller connect points.

So RDC, do you think this board is DOA at this point or is there a location that need to more closely review?

Thanks, and sorry for my repeated failure reports but I thought others might benefit from my mistakes...

[RDC]

I'm sure both boards are still alright, but without going over them myself I can't say for sure. I've never been a big fan of using CAT-5 cable for anything except what it was really intended for. I understand that it's pretty handy, thus why people use it, but it's a fairly large solid wire to be tacking on to places on a circuit board and isn't really the right wire for most other jobs either.

The way the traces are all laid out on the controller you can kill one button by messing with another one, just depends on where the damage is or what was done. Try not to use "common ground" for the description, the controller is far from that setup. DU, DD and RB do all share a common line, but in order to 'kill' RB from that common line you'd have to be messing elsewhere on the controller.

Question for ya. Does the board with the intermittent up problem (first one ya did) exhibit that problem still even when not connected to the Relay box and only to the 360 now?

I wouldn't completely rule out the length and amount of wire there causing some weirdo side effects either.

[Bg360]

It appears that the prior problematic board is still displaying that odd behavior, but at less of a rate (more time between events). I did consider whether the CAT-5 wires were somehow picking up spurious signals from outer space or somesuch.

I have 30AGW wire on order and can begin to use that sometime next weekend. I'm either going to begin with a new board using the lighter gauge wire or remove all wires from the current board and try again with the new wire. My gut feel however is that I have messed up the board and will not be able to find the problem.

(got your message concerning my use of the word "ground" - bad choice!)

Thanks again!

[Bg360]

OK, so this past weekend I wired up a new controller board. This time I used 30AGW wire which was so much easier to work with. This time I also used a couple of screw type connector terminal strips (6 on each) to connect the other end of the wire. Then the wires that run to the relay were screwed in to the other side of the terminals. This eliminates the potential stress on the circuit board welds.

In the first test with this new board, the erratic behavior continued. And when it occurred the menu movements were pretty quick.

I then began removing wires from the relay end to see which circuits were causing the problem. Eventually the problem slowed considerably but never went away as long as the controller board was connected to the console.

I then connected all of the controller board to relay wires again and now I have an unfortunate side-issue that I also have previously experienced. Now the left and right bumper switches (on the board) do not work. Also the wired circuits for D-pad Up, right and the A button do not work. I am able to do the up/down/left/right movement using the left stick.

At this point it appears that my soldering is probably not the issue as this is at least the second controller board to exhibit the bad behavior (erratic auto-menu movement) and also the loss of certain buttons including the bumper button use. This evening I plan to test each wire coming from the controller with a meter. In this test I will code a script to actuate each button circuit to see which buttons still work. I'll post those results here as well.

Any ideas or other areas to check for problems would be appreciated.

[RDC]

Right now I'd say that relay is causing the issue, 3 boards in a row is way too many for it to be user error, unless you're just wiring something up the wrong way not knowing it.

Ohm out the contacts of the relay to ground, as well as to each other. If all of those "common' connections are in fact common to each other in the relay, then that's the problem there.

Do you have access to the schematic or manual of the relay you're using? at least the model number of it? If it's like any other relay, and it should be, just controlled by the PC in this case, there shouldn't be any connection between any one relay's Common, N.O and N.C contacts to another one, but something for sure isn't right with that setup to keep killing boards like that. Unless, and no offense intended at all seriously, you're getting something wrong in the wiring of it all over and over believing it to be correct when it's not.

[Bg360]

Thanks RDC, and of course no offence taken.

Sorry if my description was not clear but I am able to reproduce the problems with no relay attached. That is, with all wires from the controller board to the relay disconnected the same wierd behavior exists. If I still need it thought I have access to relay documentation and the company that I bought it from I'm sure would help me with any relay-related issues.

Now when wiring the board I do not maintain a consistency when choosing which wires are soldered to signal and common connections. After reading your response I was wondering whether this could be a cause especially when it comes to the several buttons that use a common non-signal point on the board? I read on the web site here that it did not matter but now that I think of it most visitors here are working with individual buttons unlike myself.