The Economy And Your Livelyhood. Options

[Movax]

i doubt we'll see "the end" of the dollar, worst case scenario the Fed will just peg it to the Euro or some other more stable currency, or even a commodity like oil

although i highly doubt that will happen either

I don't understand your post. What you said is similar to what I said, yet you make it sound like I am wrong. I said "end of", yes, but I also said "new and different".

Oil is not a good currency. It has only been important for the last 100 to 200 years, and it gets used up. Gold has a track record of thousands of years as currency and has few uses outside of that.

Pegging the dollar to the euro = end of the US dollar. Simple idea, but it can't work as there are still many more dollars to be created. You can't peg unless you want to print a ton more euros too, then we are back at the beginning again.

[lordvader129]

I don't understand your post. What you said is similar to what I said, yet you make it sound like I am wrong. I said "end of", yes, but I also said "new and different".

Oil is not a good currency. It has only been important for the last 100 to 200 years, and it gets used up. Gold has a track record of thousands of years as currency and has few uses outside of that.

Pegging the dollar to the euro = end of the US dollar. Simple idea, but it can't work as there are still many more dollars to be created. You can't peg unless you want to print a ton more euros too, then we are back at the beginning again.

i didnt quite understand your point, but i do now, as for the gold standard, it wouldnt work, the reason the US switched off the gold standard is that there simply wasnt enough to go around

currently there are over 800 billion US dollars in circulation, yet the US gold reserves are only about 250 billion, to fully back all US dollars with gold the value the dollar would have to be reduced by at least 2/3

but that only counts physical currency (paper and coins) the reserve requirement for US banks is 10%, which means when you deposit 100 dollars in the bank they are only required to keep 10, and the other 90 is then given out as loans or paid as interest into other accounts, when you account for this the US money supply is over 10 trillion, and the fact of the matter is there is no physical commodity that can back that (the only current commodity that could come close is our oil reserves, about 2 trillion)

the euro could never be commodity backed either, as the euro supply is about 8.5 trillion


although the more i look into the more it becomes clear that a fiat monetary system is one of the only things keeping the recession from being even worse

[Movax]

Yes, thank goodness for inflation.

A gold standard is not the answer, though it could work. You say that without fiat the recession would be worse. Short term, in some sense, yes, but without fiat currency we would have never been in a situation nearly this bad to begin with.

There is no reason that some kind of gold backing can't work. Inflation is theft, plain and simple. Real interests rates on savings are barley zero, if not negative - people have to gamble their savings in the markets and random investments just to get ahead of inflation.

The reason the US switched of the gold standard is because they printed way too much paper to fund their wars.

[lordvader129]

inflation is what allows an economy to grow (on a gold standard the growth of the economy is limited by how fast you can mine gold)

it can however allow the economy to grow too fast, but this is why the fed needs to be more proactive in slowing speculative bubbles (of course a modicum of common sense among new investors wouldnt hurt)

all this uninformed talk about how great the gold standard is just allows con artists to take advantage of peoples naivete with scams like the liberty dollar

[Movax]

Sigh.,.

You have fallen for the bankers lies. Inflation is not necessary. Inflation by definition is too many dollars and not enough goods, resulting in the appearance of rising prices. There is no way this can be truly a good thing. Inflation allows those who get the money in their hands to steal as soon as they spend it.. this is typically governments or government contractors, big banks, etc.

A gold (and silver) standard would be ideal if could keep up with population growth. There are issues with it but it would at least be honest. Governments always find a way to become corrupt but it would be a good start. The US had some form of gold standard up to at least the great depression and to some extent the 1970s... there was no economic growth until after this?

Please watch.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afWqKcqntfs

This post has been edited by Movax: Nov 24 2009, 01:39 PM

[Movax]

It is already close to a year since I posted last and gold is up over $300 an ounce. That means an ounce of gold will buy $300 more dollars than last year. Gold is not the thing that is changing, the valuation of the dollar is.

The Federal reserve today, along with other programs is now going to officially create almost a trillion (900 billion) more dollars by June. If you have any kind of savings, consider ditching cash and bonds, get gold and/or silver investments.

That there are serious problems with the monetary system should become apparent to most in the next ~6 months

I would like to recommend this video to anyone that is the least bit interested in this stuff, I found it does a good job of showing how we got here and the seriousness of the situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE

This post has been edited by Movax: Nov 4 2010, 05:37 AM

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

I didnt think this deserved its own topic because its low on specifics but there is talk in the news of a Greece default on its debt at the end of this month. One prediction is this would lead to in weeks after a Mexico default and then a 6 month bank holiday in United states. Just something to keep an eye on to see what happens.

This post has been edited by signal-to-noise-ratio: Nov 17 2010, 10:30 AM

[lordvader129]

I didnt think this deserved its own topic because its low on specifics but there is talk in the news of a Greece default on its debt at the end of this month. One prediction is this would lead to in weeks after a Mexico default and then a 6 month bank holiday in United states. Just something to keep an eye on to see what happens.

that was predicted almost 3 years ago

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

that was predicted almost 3 years ago

Exactly it hasnt happened yet. Like the guy back in 1970s who predicted the mp3 player and buying emusic. Have to wait and see if it does or not. How things? Hope all is well.

[lordvader129]

Exactly it hasnt happened yet. Like the guy back in 1970s who predicted the mp3 player and buying emusic. Have to wait and see if it does or not. How things? Hope all is well.

my point is people have been saying the economy will completely collapse "very soon" for years (and not just the 3 years of this crisis, its been going on for as long as ive been old enough to pay attention)

and the response is always the same "its still coming, its happening soon" well honestly im getting sick of waiting, will someone kick the stool out from under the economy already? my uncles stockpile of canned goods from the S&L crisis is starting to rot

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

my point is people have been saying the economy will completely collapse "very soon" for years (and not just the 3 years of this crisis, its been going on for as long as ive been old enough to pay attention)

and the response is always the same "its still coming, its happening soon" well honestly im getting sick of waiting, will someone kick the stool out from under the economy already? my uncles stockpile of canned goods from the S&L crisis is starting to rot

Yeah I know the feeling. Ive gotten to the point where I try to avoid this stuff but some friends randomly tell me scenarios. As it stands right now work has been slow so personally Ive been hurting but hopefully the economy will get better. Just have this all in back of my mind.

[Movax]

I've thought about this a lot since I started this thread.

Gold/silver are going to extreme prices as a result of cost push inflation that is here now and will continue, as the Fed continues to monetize the debt.
If you have no savings, no 401k, no retirement funds, this is not so important to you.
If you do have savings, you need to understand what I am talking about and decide if you are going to do something about it.
If you are a speculator, get some leverage and make a massive amount of money in what will likely turn into the most spectacular bubble yet, and maybe the last one for a generation or two. (And hope 'the system' stabilizes into something were that profit matters). Silver is still cheap relative to gold.

Watch this well done video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HaqwFJj4ZY

[Movax]

Gold up another $300 -$400 or so since I posted here last.

my point is people have been saying the economy will completely collapse "very soon" for years (and not just the 3 years of this crisis, its been going on for as long as ive been old enough to pay attention)

Baby boomer generation? Sounds like my parents. Things were supposed to collapse in the late 70's and didn't, but things are much worse now. that should be obvious. It should also be obvious that just because something hasn't happened in a few generations doesn't mean it won't ever again.

well honestly im getting sick of waiting, will someone kick the stool out from under the economy already?

Your wish may come true, unfortunately. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/sp-downgrade...ative-full-text