Lighting The Xbox Guide From 12f683 Rapidfire, Instead of using player LEDs... Options

[Dark Master]

Okay well as much as I love the whole sleeper thing, it sometimes bugs me that one of my player LED's is not usable because of my rapidfire mod with a 12F683. Well I know that Hazeree has accomplished this, but I thought I'd try it.

I used a multimeter to measure the voltage the actually comes out of a 12F683 with a standard RF code, like BMU3. Its roughly 1.1v (please correct me if I am wrong), and even for the weakest of LED's for a small 3mm green LED, the lowest forward voltage I could find is about 2.2v.

So I'm short 1.1v... Could I just combine an extra 1.1v directly from the power that comes from the battery (I think its like 1.5v, but with a proper resistor it could be like 1.1v). Then the one source will always be giving the LED 1.1v, not at all enough to light it, but when I click the Sync button to change modes on my RF instead of turning on a player LED, it would simply add an additional 1.1v to the LED, changing the voltage to 2.2v and lighting up the LED!

Any suggestions on how I could do this?

Also, I know that Hazeree in his Final RF controller has a double-colored LED that can make red, green or yellow based on the input going to the LED, and the frequency (or something like that). Obviously that makes for identifying which mode your in much simpler, but that it something that would have to be coded and because most codes are built for a standard sleeper install, that just would not be possible. I just want to replace lighting a player LED with a LED in the guide button. And any help would be much appreciated.

[PGX]

Just use a transistor.

[Dark Master]

Just use a transistor.

Okay... and specifications? I've never worked with transistors before so I'm still confused about how they work, should be wired, etc.

[JFreezus]

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top is collector...attach negative side of leds to here. attach positive side of led to resistor then + voltage. Attach bottom (emitter) to ground.
Attach middle (base) to resistor then to your 1. whatever voltage.

Resistor at base is 1.whatever divided by 1/100 of current going through led's, or smaller. 10k or higher is probably fine.


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[Dark Master]

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top is collector...attach negative side of leds to here. attach positive side of led to resistor then + voltage. Attach bottom (emitter) to ground.
Attach middle (base) to resistor then to your 1. whatever voltage.

Resistor at base is 1.whatever divided by 1/100 of current going through led's, or smaller. 10k or higher is probably fine.
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I appreciate it! Your wording made it a little hard to understand what values my resistors should be, so I went ahead and thought I'd test this is a circuit simulator. Even though I have both resistors as just a default 100 now, I tried changing them both up and down and I still couldn't get more than the 1.1v of power from the collector to go to the LED.



Whats wrong?

[SPARCT]

Which type of controller is this on? I think it's much easier if you have an older matrix controller because, correct me if I'm wrong, the led indication wire is wired to the negative of the SMD led and it works by grounding the LED out. With a matrix you can wire the guide light to the proper voltage source and run the wire from the PIC to the ground on the LED, works great. I've done this before and it's pretty cool with a couple of 3mm LEDs or a single 10mm LED in the dome.

[Dark Master]

Which type of controller is this on? I think it's much easier if you have an older matrix controller because, correct me if I'm wrong, the led indication wire is wired to the negative of the SMD led and it works by grounding the LED out. With a matrix you can wire the guide light to the proper voltage source and run the wire from the PIC to the ground on the LED, works great. I've done this before and it's pretty cool with a couple of 3mm LEDs or a single 10mm LED in the dome.

Its actually a CG, but I'll open up my Matrix and maybe give that a try. What power source on the board did you use to power a 10mm LED? Seems like the forward voltage on one of those would be too much to actually power.

[JFreezus]

I appreciate it! Your wording made it a little hard to understand what values my resistors should be, so I went ahead and thought I'd test this is a circuit simulator. Even though I have both resistors as just a default 100 now, I tried changing them both up and down and I still couldn't get more than the 1.1v of power from the collector to go to the LED.



Whats wrong?

you need like +3v or higher at the collector. The 1.1 from the board goes to base

And Vbe at .6 whatever you got is correct. There is a forward voltage of approx. .7 volts from base to emitter when it is fully conducting....like a diode.

This post has been edited by JFreezus: Mar 25 2010, 04:48 PM

[Dark Master]

Which type of controller is this on? I think it's much easier if you have an older matrix controller because, correct me if I'm wrong, the led indication wire is wired to the negative of the SMD led and it works by grounding the LED out. With a matrix you can wire the guide light to the proper voltage source and run the wire from the PIC to the ground on the LED, works great. I've done this before and it's pretty cool with a couple of 3mm LEDs or a single 10mm LED in the dome.

Okay well I ended up doing this on my Matrix controller and its awesome... But I'm wondering if I can just do the same thing on a CG, or will it not work?

[JFreezus]

so i guess it worked with the transistor?

[Dark Master]

No, sorry bro. I haven't given the transistor thing a try yet.

What kind of transistor should I get? Cause I know there is a lot of different types.

[SPARCT]

I'm not sure if the mod I mentioned will work on a CG controller, I'm pretty sure the ROL leds are lit on a CG controller from the positive side since they all share a common ground. You could this a try on a CG, it certainly shouldn't hurt anything and worst I could see happening is potentially blowing a 20 cent led.

The 10mm led from Niktronix doesn't require anymore voltage than a standard 3 or 5mm led. The blue and green leds require between 3.2 to 3.6v, so they're good with 3.3v. The red 10mm leds are even lower at a max of 2.4v.

[Dark Master]

I'm not sure if the mod I mentioned will work on a CG controller, I'm pretty sure the ROL leds are lit on a CG controller from the positive side since they all share a common ground. You could this a try on a CG, it certainly shouldn't hurt anything and worst I could see happening is potentially blowing a 20 cent led.

The 10mm led from Niktronix doesn't require anymore voltage than a standard 3 or 5mm led. The blue and green leds require between 3.2 to 3.6v, so they're good with 3.3v. The red 10mm leds are even lower at a max of 2.4v.

I guess I'll give it a go tomorrow. Though it doesn't sound likely. Now that I understand the only reason it worked on a Matrix is becuase it worked by grounding out the LED, and if on a CG, the only way to light it is to provide voltage, how come the LED doesn't break?

For example, when you turn on your CG controller with BMU3, all the lights flash while it connects to your box, and say you turn your RF on, so your player LED blinks on. Well if your 12F683 is sending 1.1~volts to the positive side of the LED and the controller itself is sending another 1.1~volts to that LED to light it, wouldn't the combining power blow the LED?

Oh man I'm lost.

[Hazeree]

OK guys, I will shed some light here:

If you are using my code, you hook the LED directly. The output is a squarewave signal at 50Hz. That is why you measure 1.1V, because it is a 2.2V output that is on only half the time.

You guys are correct that the matrix LED is grounded and needs 2V to light up, and the CG is held high and needs to be grounded in order to light. In order to make the code universal for each controller, I made the LED outputs a 50% duty cycle signal so it would turn on both LED configurations without changing the code. The resistor is not really needed to light the LED or protect it as much as it is to protect the PIC output pin when the controller is forcing the LED on.

If you are going to be using your own LEDs, then you will not need a resistor at all, since the PIC will not be competing with the controller for powering the LED.


As for my 3 color design, you are right that I used a multi-color LED. Actually, its 2 LEDs: Red and Green. They are wired in sseries and glued together (I could not find any bi-color packaged this way, they are all sold in parralel). So, in order to get yellow, you light both LEDs at the same time. Here is the fun part: It only takes one PIC output pin to make all 3 colors.

The anode of the red LED is tied to V+. The cathode of the red LED is tied to the anode of the green LED and also to the PIC pin through a 100 Ohm resistor. The cathode of the green LED is tied to ground. If the PIC pin is changed to an input, there is not enough forward voltage for either LED to light. If the PIC pin is output low, the red LED will light. If the PIC pin is held high, the green LED will light. If the PIC pin is a 50% duty cycle signal, it will light both LEDs to make yellow.

The coding for that was not too hard as long as it was done in the interupt.

But I may suggest one more possible alternative: You can solder extra SMD LEDs to the existing green LEDs and wire the PIC to those instead of the ones the ccontroller is commanding. ie: Solder a red LED to the grounded side (in matrix) of the player 4 LED and then solder your PIC pin to that red LED. The PIC controls the red LEDs, the controller controls the green LEDs, and both will still show through the edge of the guide button if you place it correctly.

Good luck.