Warning: Consoles Still Connect To Xbox Live Despite Family Settings, Confirmed by sniffing outgoing UDP network traffic Options

[Haygar]

I've run FSD on my JTAG'ed Jasper, and XBL is blocked in the family settings. This console is connected to my home network 100% of the time - I can still install to NXE the regular way, my profile and HDD work fine on other consoles. I'm pretty sure it's just the dashboard saying, "Hey Xbox Live, are you awake?" and Xbox Live replying "Yep!" I don't think your console is sending any specific information to the service, especially if you don't have any XBL accounts on the HDD at all (I don't), since you have not agreed to the XBL TOS if you don't have a Live account.

This should be stickied.

Either way we need to build up a clear picture of what has happened and could happen.

@ Maximize: You say u got banned in 15 seconds. Do u know the entire history of your jtag? Did u mod it yourself/never used it online? ...It's strange that your ban doesn't corrupt saves/achievement's between consoles, a 'normal' ban would corrupt data/not sign off trusted content.

...Have you redumped your NAND and checked the secdata to compare before and after?
What brandogg said makes sense, i.e. the 'yes I'm alive' handshake, but without any h/w or user specific console data going out/in.

I really hope you guys are right !!! But are'nt we being a bit naive thinking that no console specific info is being transfered?

Does anyone know how we could check/interpret the traffic while in this idle state?

This post has been edited by Haygar: Aug 1 2010, 02:42 PM

[thwack]

Agree it should be stickied.
AFAIK when a JTAG gets banned the secdata etc isn't written to in the same way that a non-modded kernel is - ie there's no command to 'cripple' the 360, just a ban of the KV. I'm uncertain whether this is due to the way FreeBoot is structured, or if it's Live-side that dictates this.
I think what brandogg says is correct - it's a handshake thing with Live. And it's a fair thing to do to not be signed in on a Live/MS created profile whilst the network cables is in, you really don't want your GT associated with a JTAG as this may lead to problems with GT banning later down the line.

[Maximize]

the console wasnt modded or jtagged when I bought it, I jtagged it and my gamertag had never been on live with a modded console before, the only times my gamertag signed on live prior, was prior to modding and to download divx support only.

the other day I was attempting to block ports and my mac addresses using those ports I blocked all the ports previously posted as well as 10 ports above and below them. Did a connection test it failed, did another and it connected to live. was connected for about 15 seconds. disconnected tried to further block connection and tried to connect again this is now the next day, and I got the ban notice.

it is my understanding that installing 9199 on a banned console restores hdd function, so a ban while on 9199, shouldnt affect hdd function or save data

some thread here recently stated that consoles on 9199 and maybe 8955 save a file on the nand that is believed to be created when a drive or nand is "modded" (I can t remember the thread or the file) but if this is the case it would stand to reason that this data is sent almost immediately when connected to live

[thwack]

9199 just restores the 360's ability to save to the HD - the console (I believe) still can't create trusted content - ie saves and GT will appear as corrupted on other 360s.
The file thats created/altered is the secdata - also now makes more sense you got the ban message the next day - you'll get 6 hours tops on a JTAG online (that's from when you first connect to Live) before your KV's a gonner.

[Kiewee123]

Yes, the first connection is indeed a handshake as I said in the OP, on the Kerberos authentication protocol (google it). My worries are the subsequent connection(s) on the alternate port, and although Microsoft at present don't have anything in place to limit/blow/patch/etc. freeboot and the jtag hack, as others have said above I think it'd be naive to completely ignore the possibility of it in the future - they might just 'pull a fast one'. I for one don't like my console connecting back to Microsoft for any reason at all - even if it's just a darn ping.

At the moment, with the iptables previously mentioned set up, I have peace of mind that my console isn't connecting to anyone but teamfsd for diddly squit. Although at present I haven't had time to figure out where the NTP sync, covers, info, etc. are fetched from, but this doesn't bother me much for now. I need to get onto teamFSD and ask personally, but I can't find anyway to contact them but the bugtracker.

[GISJason]

Try #FreeStyleDash on EFNet

[Kiewee123]

Try #FreeStyleDash on EFNet

I'll get at them tomorrow afternoon - it's a bit late now. Cheers.

[Mattie]

I'll get at them tomorrow afternoon - it's a bit late now. Cheers.

We're on the forums too
NTP goes to pool.ntp.org, FSD updates to teamfsd.com
but all covers and such are downloaded from microsoft. we use the same url's NXE use.
In time we'll probably release a pc-indexer again, so if you're worried about connecting
to microsoft, you can wait for that for all your covers and such (won't be too soon though).

hope this helps

[Kiewee123]

We're on the forums too
NTP goes to pool.ntp.org, FSD updates to teamfsd.com
but all covers and such are downloaded from microsoft. we use the same url's NXE use.
In time we'll probably release a pc-indexer again, so if you're worried about connecting
to microsoft, you can wait for that for all your covers and such (won't be too soon though).

hope this helps

Brilliant - cheers Mattie!

[Aldanga]

I know of consoles that haven't ever connected to LIVE (original Xbox games or otherwise) and were never banned, so I have a question: Does this network communication occur only when an original Xbox game is run? or can it happen at any time?

[dotfortun3]

I am no lawyer, nor do I claim to know anything about the law, but I am pretty sure that MS can't send you an update that will brick your JTAG 360, or make it unusable. Especially if you do not accept the update. The reasons people get banned (as I understand it) are for violating the ToS of Xbox Live, i.e., you willing connect to XBL with a modified Xbox 360. If you make all attempts to block a connection to XBL via the options on the Xbox 360, they should not be able to do anything to you because you are not violating any sort of terms. By blocking the connection to Xbox Live, I believe you would be refusing the ToS of Xbox Live, therefore you are not bannable. I have been connected via ethernet since I JTAGed months ago, and I have not been banned as of yet. I block the connection with the settings on the Xbox 360. However, if I were banned, I would contact a lawyer. (LOL)

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

from what i can gather... u own the hardware... u dont own the software...

[jockthecock]

I doubt anyone one get banned for connecting to live if their family settings were set to not connect to it.

Didn't google this week in the UK get found guilty of sniffing inappropriate data with their google cars (security details of customers wifi accounts) they should have been fined though.

But i believe this is connecting to live even if all options are set not connect will be used by microsoft to determine how many jags and such are out there.

It's a dodgy area indeed but the authorities would'nt do anything until there is a complaint that stirs up an investigation that finds out if microsoft are or aren't spying on folks by collecting data

This post has been edited by jockthecock: Nov 5 2010, 03:07 PM

[ZerOneX]

ok I can still copy games to hdd, can still play games from hdd god's and not god's, and my saves for borderlands and alan wake are still good, so I am going to say the ban did nothing to my console, and maybe that is because I have the bridged ut61 (or whatever its designation) so I wonder if you could get your hands on a banned xbox and see how the traffic compares

Are you saying that you are using the original NXE with U6T1 or U6T2 shorted??? I tried that and received error E80!!!

[danthaman673]

The new TOS allows for silent updates! If the JTAG (with a banned KV) hassles the live servers enough it is concievable that they will put the console ID on the untrusted list (Meaning u have to patch for every game- From memory) Or maybe they'll just log-it

Having banned KV on JTAG means nothing as others have commented previously. I'm worried about the day when they decide to take it further(I'm glad I always remove R6T3)

I agree about the handshake prolly being for updating the 'Xbox Live is Up and Running' on network panel on the dash- to give/recieve QOS packets - But you never really know 4sure ....


BTW I would bet that Xval would prolly be in the layer 5/6 part of the handshake anyway (Same as above QOS)