Many think the xbox cpu is more powerful than the Ps2, but they don't know all the facts, even though the xbox has a 733mhz 32bit P3 processor, it cannot compete with the ps2's emotion engine, which even though its only approximatly 295mhz, has a bus size of 128bits. Thats four time the data that can be transfered per clock cycle than the xboxe's P3 at only 32bits. so in other words, a Ps2 processor would operate at 1.2ghz if it were also 32bits, which is far greater than xboxs clock cycle. But even though the Ps2 may have the more powerful cpu, The xbox kills ps2 when it comes to the Nvidia gpu. It has probably twice as much built in 3d effects than the ps2 & also a higher poly count from the gpu. This makes up for the gap that the ps2 had by having the superior emotion engine. Verdict, if you like better gameplay, go for the Ps2, but if you like higher resolution graphics, go for xbox

Please post your arguments. Let the war commence

If the PS2 is so much faster why do all the emulators play so much more slowly than the Xbox counterparts?

I like Ps2 for some of their games, but when it comes down to it, the Xbox is my choice. Xbox have some amazing games coming out and I've had the most fun on the Xbox out of all the game systems I own. Ninja Gaiden, I CAN'T WAIT....

Zero, Lets put it like this. Ps2 is a whole new type of computer seperate from ibm & apple. It is also the most complex to develop for. You have to do all this processor programing & such that is not required with the xbox. Many programmers already know how to program for xbox because all it is is a stripped down windows OS & directx, & people have been developing for windows & directx forever. You like that comeback?

The Xbox / PS2 war has nothing to do with CPU/GPU power.

Why does the PS2 still sell more ? It's very easy:
* Square Enix
* Grand Theft Auto
* Gran Turismo
* Metal Gear Solid
* EA online games
* it's a playstation

QUOTE (Bigdog1028 @ Dec 12 2003, 01:58 AM)

You like that comeback?

Not really, if it were as fast as you claim it would easily make up for the speed loss in the complexity of the code adaptation.

[/QUOTE]

If they cant program for it than how would they take advantage of the speed?

Who can't program for it? there have been plenty of decent homebrew apps on PS2.

QUOTE (Bigdog1028 @ Dec 11 2003, 09:58 PM)

Many programmers already know how to program for xbox because all it is is a stripped down windows OS & directx, & people have been developing for windows & directx forever. You like that comeback?

That's also why you hear developers saying they PREFER to program games for the Xbox.

*edit*
I like my Xbox. Now I don't have to hook my computer up to my TV to watch movies I have. I just stream them from my computer. I can play all the old school systems. I can backup all my game discs and not have to worry about them getting scratched up or having to haul a bunch of games with me because I don't know what my friends and me might want to play.

On the playstation site, you see literally hundreds of threads like this A DAY start there. They're pointless. It's like they're subconsioucsly (sp?) insecure about their choice of gaming system and have to validate their choice by berating the other systems. Each system has their strengths and weakness's. This is probably the third time I've seen a VS. thread on this forum since I came here. It says a lot about PS2 fans vs. Xbox fans.

Wow, ANOTHER Xbox vs PS2 thread!

/me shades eyes and looks around...

Well, no novelty here. So long.

fuck the fuckin play fuckin station 2 mother fuckin piece of shiet all my friend sell fucking ps2 for xbox ebay style. ps2 just fuckin suck man xbox unless possiblity and again fuck ps2 dont buy it

QUOTE (WeeDnaMesE @ Dec 12 2003, 06:38 AM)

fuck the fuckin play fuckin station 2 mother fuckin piece of shiet all my friend sell fucking ps2 for xbox ebay style. ps2 just fuckin suck man xbox unless possiblity and again fuck ps2 dont buy it

You go girl!!

Who cares. Buy both.

Bigdog, if you didnt notice XBOX SCENE Obvisously views will be biased. And more people will like the xbox.....I had a PS2....I broke the Ps2....My point is, yes the PS2 did have some nice games, however look at GTA 3 and GTA VC, they fucking lagg on the PS2, and the graphics is shit. Also from my experience a chipped xbox can do more than a Chipped PS2. Please correct me if im wrong, havent really looked into the world of PS2 since i broke my ps2, over a year ago?.....Also, ps2's are way harder to chip if you want a game to boot directly, you need a 23 wire chip. Therefore to sum up, the X-Box is superior to the PS2. However PS2 does get better titles. Once in a while.

The only reason why developer make games for the PS2 is cause they know they are more PS2 than Xbox out their

and before i forget

NINJA GAIDEN
HALO 2
BC

I think 90% of the ps2s sold are currently broke!

I thought GTA was just to god damn repetive the graphics were crap and the style was just like WTF am I playing sure GTA 3 used to be ALRIGHT for a few days, but it gets boring!

QUOTE (AnThRaX @ Dec 13 2003, 01:21 AM)

I thought GTA was just to god damn repetive the graphics were crap and the style was just like WTF am I playing sure GTA 3 used to be ALRIGHT for a few days, but it gets boring!

I totally agree. The first time I played GTA I was like "What's the big fuckin' deal about this game?". I traded my Xbox to my brother for his PS2 so he could play K.O.T.O.R. I probably played the PS2 for about an hour out of the three weeks I had it.

now i dont own a ps2 ..i did but not long enough to get onto the mod scene...but i do know my computers and anyone who says PS2 is better than the Xbox are only in it for the name not the performance... PS2 what a joke...that HDD add-on is gonna flop fast...and not only is it a matter of being a cut down of windows and easier to program or so we heard Xbox has a wider variety of apps that can be added.....last i checked ps2 can only run games from the hdd and thats it....and compatibility issues is another thing...does ps2 have MS capabilities...??? I THINK NOT....and i dont see any alternative os for the ps2...and last i checked ps2 is only in competition with gamecube..which i think is still better then ps2...xbox is the god of all consoles. I think Xbox users are more serious than ps2 users who buy one for games only..bill gates sux....but the xbox is one thing i think will be reaching advanced users for years to come....so in conclusion ps2 sux....

i know y the ps sold well it was because it was 1 of the first console where games were easy to back up so every tom dick and harry got one and brought back ups like most of my friends didnt like consoles but they all ended up geting the first ps and then a new 1 comes out and ps had already got a good name so they got that but i still think the xboxis better i reckon out of xbox2 and ps3 the xbox will kill them

I have both my xbox and ps2 modded, and I like the xbox the most, the games ar bether, buth the XBOX is the best for older gamers (16+) there are a cople of games for ''kids''
PS2 hase same nice games (Final fantsy, GTA, ...) but most of the games are for ''kids'' (-16) even for litel children (3+). PS2 hase more gatjets (sorry for bad spelling) like the eyetoy ore samthing, the dancematt, ...

My conclusion is +16 Xbox
-16 PS2 is the best (dipents on person)

Greedz Boco
ps sorry for verry bad language.

I own a ps2 i only use it for Tribes,Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid after i beat FFx-2 it going to sit there untill Metal Gear Solid 3 or Tribes 2 comes out .


LONG
LIVE
LINUX

ive got a ps2, xbox and Gamecube, and so far, the Gamecube has definitely impressed me most visually.

Anyone who gets the chance should definitely try Rogue squadron 3 on GC just for the visuals. I dont know any other console game that looks that good and throws that much geometry around the screen

To get back to the main topic at hand, your argument has no logical base. First off these are 2 COMPLETELY different processors. The Ps2's EE (emotion engine) is both its CPU and GPU. The EE actually is divided into 6 seperate units that can do some great things when they are programmed to run in tandom with each other. HOWEVER you cant just say that if the ps2 cpu was 32 bits it would be running at 1.4 ghz. the bus width doesnt have anything to do with cpu power, it has to do with the amount of data that can be transfered to and from the processor/ram and it only becomes a performance factor when a great deal of data is being transfered to and from the CPU. Just because the PS2 has 128 bit bus doesnt mean its using it efficiently all the time. Basically, Bus width doesnt affect in any way the actual CPU performance, it only affects overall application performance and only when a great deal of data has to be transfered at once. Then it becomes a bottleneck. The ps2 cpu cant do as much work as an xbox cpu hence the xbox cpu is still faster. The xbox GPU contains programmable pixel/vertex shaders while the PS2 lacks both of these features. THe "Ps2 is too hard to program for" argument cant really be used to much now because developers have had several years now to experiment and learn the architecture. granted it is harder to develop for than xbox. Other obvious advantages is the xbox's 64MB ram vs. the PS2's 32.


I'm not some raging fanboy, i have a ps2 and it was the first system i ever did any type of modding with and i love it, im just saying you cant deny facts.

oh and evox reloaded: the PS2 CANT play backup games. The only homebrew the PS2 has are about 7-8 emus (SNES-80%,Genesis-95%,Master System-100%,MAME ??%) and some other really old ghetto 70's computer emulators. The PS2 also has a divx/xvid player and memory card/hard drive application loader, but as far as storing roms and stuff that has yet to be implemented except for the genesis emulator.

oh and the PS2 has some MAJOR CD reader problems. For an average user, 10-20 hours a week, the PS2 reader WILL fail after 2 years. I know, mine has, all of my friends have and because of this Sony was forced under threat of legal action to offer free repairs for people with the "disc read error."(just search it on google) Sony's justification for using such cheap components was they wanted to "keep production costs down." It also helps that the PS2 laser is mal-adjusted. In order to get the PS2 out on time, rather than using a decent cd laser, they take really cheap ones and jack the laser voltage out the crapphole so it willread all the different formats it was meant to read.

Well arguing over consoles is stupid in the first place. Each one has it's advantages, so why not just accept them for what they are. I get sick of threads like these as they tend to bring out all the fanboys (on ALL sides) and it just gets lame. I own both consoles and prefer my PS2 to my XBOX by a little but I still like all of the consoles out there. There is nothing wrong with preferences and I respect the opinions of those who do reguardless of which side they fall on but to those who simply make comments like "PS2 sucks, XBOX rocks", ect. are just plain stupid and clearly do not own both consoles. I have seen VERY few people who have owned both consoles, who will still come out and say that one of them is a complete piece of crap.

Hello , Here we go again. Why does this debate keep coming up ? I 4 1 prefer my XBOX over the PS2/GameCube. The PS2 has some games that i like (so does the gamecube). But the Xbox rulz when it comes 2 mods. I mean i have installed a 250GB hd a box (Thats 120 Full xbox DVD games All the Emulators & Roms Included). I can run them all from the HD. U cant do that from the PS2/GameCube. I never have 2 use the DVD drive (Less wear & tear) for anything except 2 rip or watch DVD (I already have 4 DVD players in my house). I use Xbmp/Xbmc 2 watch stream movies, Mp3, etc.. from my pc. These things r all done on my box. PS2 can do some of these things , but not like the Xbox. Gamecube isnt even in the same league when it comes 2 mods. Most of us here already have a modded system so, we know what system dominates in that area.
Now the hardware. The PS2 is dated. It has been pushed as far as it can go. There's no way that the PS2 can out do the Xbox in grafx, Sound, Online capabilities. Take for instance, the BEST PS2 games in existance. Now let the Programmers redo those games for the XBOX (I mean literally redo the games 2 use the full power of the XBOX). I'm not talking ports (most of those suck anyway). The XBOX will blow the PS2 away if it was done that way. No longer will we have a debate on XBOX vs PS2. We will then know what system really rules the video game market. Right now its about the games. Thats what's seperating the PS2 from the Xbox. Like i stated b4 if those Same games were redone for the xbox it wouldn't be a debate.
The GameCube is really good system. It uses the ATI grafx chipset (which blows the PS2 away & hangs tuff with the Xbox). But as stated again... take the BEST GCn games redo them for the xbox & u'll c games as never b4. So with that in mind, it's a matter of preference. Some of u will still use the XBOx. Some of u will use the PS2. Some of u will use the GameCube. Hey .. Some have both or all 3 systems. Whichever u have , enjoy it (I know i will) . Enjoy them all . That's what they're here for.


U can learn something from everybody .

hmm another consol war well i can solf this have one of your friends that way like 150 pounds stand on an xbox then have on stand on a ps2 see which one cracks

hmm another consol war well i can solve this have one of your friends that way like 150 pounds stand on an xbox then have on stand on a ps2 see which one cracks

sorry for doulbe post saw a spellin error and tryed to fix it :s

I own both a PS2 and an Xbox. I like the "look" of PS2 games and the variety of games on the PS2 better than those on the Xbox.

But the Xbox is capable of so much more, with the hard drive, homebrew stuff, and peripherals. So my Xbox gets more use.

Why must PS2 and Xbox owners constantly defend their choice, saying "their" console is better? The great battle? Shaddup.

Agreed.

the xbox is clearly the most powerful console. in terms of graphics, sound, capabilities, etc. most of all, it has a hard drive. but honestly i do enjoy the ps2's exclusive games quite a bit more (ratchet and clank, final fantasy series). the xbox has some great games and cool features but i find myself playing my ps2 more.

Just buy all 3 consoles and u can get any game released. CASE CLOSED!

QUOTE (guitardork864 @ Jan 5 2004, 11:01 AM)

To get back to the main topic at hand, your argument has no logical base.  First off these are 2 COMPLETELY different processors.  The Ps2's EE (emotion engine) is both its CPU and GPU.  The EE actually is divided into 6 seperate units that can do some great things when they are programmed to run in tandom with each other.  HOWEVER you cant just say that if the ps2 cpu was 32 bits it would be running at 1.4 ghz.  the bus width doesnt have anything to do with cpu power, it has to do with the amount of data that can be transfered to and from the processor/ram and it only becomes a performance factor when a great deal of data is being transfered to and from the CPU.  Just because the PS2 has 128 bit bus doesnt mean its using it efficiently all the time.  Basically, Bus width doesnt affect in any way the actual CPU performance, it only affects overall application performance and only when a great deal of data has to be transfered at once.  Then it becomes a bottleneck.  The ps2 cpu cant do as much work as an xbox cpu hence the xbox cpu is still faster.  The xbox GPU contains programmable pixel/vertex shaders while the PS2 lacks both of these features.  THe "Ps2 is too hard to program for" argument cant really be used to much now because developers have had several years now to experiment and learn the architecture.  granted it is harder to develop for than xbox.  Other obvious advantages is the xbox's 64MB ram vs. the PS2's 32. I'm not some raging fanboy, i have a ps2 and it was the first system i ever did any type of modding with and i love it, im just saying you cant deny facts. oh and evox reloaded: the PS2 CANT play backup games.  The only homebrew the PS2 has are about 7-8 emus (SNES-80%,Genesis-95%,Master System-100%,MAME ??%) and some other really old ghetto 70's computer emulators.  The PS2 also has a divx/xvid player and memory card/hard drive application loader, but as far as storing roms and stuff that has yet to be implemented except for the genesis emulator. oh and the PS2 has some MAJOR CD reader problems.  For an average user, 10-20 hours a week, the PS2 reader WILL fail after 2 years.  I know, mine has, all of my friends have and because of this Sony was forced under threat of legal action to offer free repairs for people with the "disc read error."(just search it on google) Sony's justification for using such cheap components was they wanted to "keep production costs down." It also helps that the PS2 laser is mal-adjusted.  In order to get the PS2 out on time, rather than using a decent cd laser, they take really cheap ones and jack the laser voltage out the crapphole so it willread all the different formats it was meant to read.

ok, this guy doesnt know what hes writing about at all, its bad enough ur a n00b you dont have to go showing it

firstly, use the enter key once in a while, take a breath

secondly, you cannot say that bus architecture doesnt set the ps2 CPU ahead of the xbox, it does, massively... having a bus architecture four times the speed of the xbox one allows the ps2 to flood the memory with commands and clear it much faster, making the CPU and memory effectively faster and higher capacities than the xbox ones.

Have you ever used a powermac? (G4 just so we can compare to intels crappy 64 bit bus width). The velocity engine, similar to that of hypertransport, allows data to be summoned and stored in the memory at blistering speeds, making the need for speed essentially less and setting the physically slower core and memory ahead of most intel processors.

secondly, the xbox has shared RAM so it is not really 64mb, but normally at a ratio of cpu to GPU 2:1 (mostly anyway).

then, we see that the ps2s physical speeds are much lower than that of the xbox, so it doesnt matter what the effective speeds are it still might not reach those of the xbox, so this is what is with the GPU not being as effective.

PS2 system architecture runs across several (parallel) pipelines, sort of like a FSB if you like, that links all the systems components, which is different to the xbox's standard PC northbridge-southbridge architecture, making for a much higher memory and GFX bandwidth, so on a higher technical configuration, the ps2 would easily massacre the xbox.

Finally, remember that the systems were released a year and a half apart! most computers in the market today dont last 3 months in the 'high end' section of the market, so the PS2 is now 4 years old, and had a good run, where sales have doubled, in some cases quadrupled those of the xbox, and looking at gamecube sales is completely irrelevant as they are too low...

You seem to be forgetting that the ps2 was constructed to be an entertainment system solely, and sony cuts no corners in making it just that... small, quiet, sleek, and fun... whereas MS constructed a bullet-proof tank of a computer that sounds like a wounded rhino, so in future, have more respect when comparing 2 systems.

I had plenty of respect for the PS2 and you missed my whole point. I said the CPU's themselves. FORGET THE BUS, the actual processing power of the CPU's. The XBox is more powerful. Albeit the 2 vector units of the PS2 are quite amazing, and are also what most games use for graphical processing.

Oh and I.Stole.THis.Name I dont deny that a fast/wide BUS architecture does help real-time performance greatly, I even mentioned that. I resent being called a "noob." I know quite about about computer architecture, and no, i dont just mean Intel's 32 bit Pentium.

About having a higher bus speed setting the PS2 cpu ahead of the Xbox. In terms of raw data transmission, yes. However similar to how Sony came up with the PS2's polygon count, it's only that effective in certain situations. Sony basicly ran a test on the PS2 to generate as many flat triangular polygons as possible. Since there were no skins, nor any real 3d geometry, of course the PS2 will output ,"70 million polygons." Realtime gaming performance says different. In realtime gaming you aren't going to have the same polygon basicaly cloning itself. When you add in skinning, shading, and buffer opperations you cut the actual performance number down severely.

Similarly, The Ps2's 128 bit bus width is effective and advantageous in certain situations. Maybe not as exclusive as the latter, but there are times when it can be effective. Say there is a game that uses a graphics engine that uses fairly decent texture quality and generates massive areas without a set in "loading time." Jak and Daxter anyone Basically this is where the 128 bit bus width is extremely helpful as it can store and clear data in the Ram extremely quickly enabling them to not have to have loading times.

That's was what I was saying all along, yes in certain situations, its extremely useful. However, that's just one element. That's like saying a Toyota Supra is better than a Lanver Evo. Depends on the track. If its rally, or if its got a lot of turns, the lancer will hand the supra its ass on a silver platter. If its long and fairly fast, the Supra will gain the advantage.

I cant be arsed reading the whole thread but all I can say is:

"The only emotion the 'emotion engine' gives developers is dissapointment"

or something like that..

the PS2 is powerfull, yes, but harder to program for, unlike the xbox wich is piss and faster...

QUOTE (mkjones @ Jan 13 2004, 12:04 PM)

I cant be arsed reading the whole thread but all I can say is: "The only emotion the 'emotion engine' gives developers is dissapointment" or something like that.. the PS2 is powerfull, yes, but harder to program for, unlike the xbox wich is piss and faster...

thats cuz the xbox is technically a pc so the structure has been around for ages for programmers, how come xbox games cost more to produce tho?

anywho im not saying the ps2 is higher tech when its clearly not im just saying whats the point of a good gaming system with barely any good games on it?

why i got an xbox u say? modding!

amen!

Does it matter which is more powerful?

Really?

If you like a PS2 buy a PS2. If you like Xboxs buy and Xbox. I you like both buy both!

Simple

i bought both

screw the console wars, time for bragging wars!

Agreed. I own both myself.

QUOTE (guitardork864 @ Jan 14 2004, 11:44 AM)

amen!

LOL

There is no one system better than the others unless you account for nintendo's crappy ass gc.

QUOTE (evoxreloaded @ Dec 15 2003, 03:30 AM)

now i dont own a ps2 ..i did but not long enough to get onto the mod scene...but i do know my computers and anyone who says PS2 is better than the Xbox are only in it for the name not the performance... PS2 what a joke...that HDD add-on is gonna flop fast...and not only is it a matter of being a cut down of windows and easier to program or so we heard Xbox has a wider variety of apps that can be added.....last i checked ps2 can only run games from the hdd and thats it....and compatibility issues is another thing...does ps2 have MS capabilities...??? I THINK NOT....and i dont see any alternative os for the ps2...and last i checked ps2 is only in competition with gamecube..which i think is still better then ps2...xbox is the god of all consoles. I think Xbox users are more serious than ps2 users who buy one for games only..bill gates sux....but the xbox is one thing i think will be reaching advanced users for years to come....so in conclusion ps2 sux....

PS2Linux

I'm not going to say much in this debate, since it has been talked about many many times before...however the ps2 has had offical linux support for a long time now.

Sony even throws coding competitions.

QUOTE (i.stole.this.name @ Jan 13 2004, 08:55 AM)

QUOTE (mkjones @ Jan 13 2004, 12:04 PM) I cant be arsed reading the whole thread but all I can say is: "The only emotion the 'emotion engine' gives developers is dissapointment" or something like that.. the PS2 is powerfull, yes, but harder to program for, unlike the xbox wich is piss and faster... thats cuz the xbox is technically a pc so the structure has been around for ages for programmers, how come xbox games cost more to produce tho? anywho im not saying the ps2 is higher tech when its clearly not im just saying whats the point of a good gaming system with barely any good games on it? why i got an xbox u say? modding!

Any good games on it? You sound like fanboy. And you have throughout this entire thread. Really.

nah i stick with my soul to PCs... just pissed at morons who say oh xbox is definately better.... no reason to diss a system that no doubt inspired the xbox in the first place

ive always known a console to be a Tv based games machine that can only run dedicated 'signed' software by default....

last time i checked... xbox did that......



PC, my arse....

I think a lot of people go, "OH MY GOD THE XBOX IS X86 JUST LIKE A PC IS THEREFORE IT MUST BE A PC OH MY GOD!!!!"

Yeah, so what? It's X86, but its still a console. OMG THE GAMECUBE HAS A POWERPC CPU THAT MAKES IT AN APPLE!! AHHHHHHHHH!!! OH MY GOD YOU GUYS!!!!!

Seriously, I think a lot of people need to stop bashing the xbox just because.

QUOTE (guitardork864 @ Jan 19 2004, 07:35 AM)

I think a lot of people go, "OH MY GOD THE XBOX IS X86 JUST LIKE A PC IS THEREFORE IT MUST BE A PC OH MY GOD!!!!" Yeah, so what? It's X86, but its still a console. OMG THE GAMECUBE HAS A POWERPC CPU THAT MAKES IT AN APPLE!! AHHHHHHHHH!!! OH MY GOD YOU GUYS!!!!! Seriously, I think a lot of people need to stop bashing the xbox just because.

hell yeah

Well, the first next gen console I had was a ps2. I was happy with it because i thought it was the best one. Me and my mates used to bash xboxes. But one of those mates of mine bought every console to try and find the best one. It went "gamecube, xbox, gamecube, ps2(had it for 9 days), xbox". He decided the xbox was the best one. I thought I would go round and give halo a go. When I did I was hooked. thats how I started to like xboxes.
The reason I prefer xboxes though is because so many things can be done with it. Also everyone I know people who had a ps2 went wrong and people with xboxes didnt... plus I can get lots of games off my mate

FYI its not just cuz X86 that makes people think the xbox is a pc, in fact, i have the wrong term, the xbox IS a pc, just a common pc with games programmed for its specs...

dont like halo

so the original reason i bought xbox was cel damage! then there was kung fu chaos, whacked, and a whole other bunch of crazy cartoon stuffs...

one thing no other system than the ps2 can pull off is fighting games, good luck fighting on a gamecube controller, and well the xbox one is too fiddly and not straight...

to the idiots who think pc's are stupid.... look at sales, the pc has been going for decades now, it never failed, and until now it is still much more powerful than an xbox, ps2, gamecube and all of them put together... without the pc there would not be an xbox, or any other game system, good luck justifying why pc's suck

and i dont really care if you got pc's in your 'arse' you certainly talk like u do