I just want to say this again.

WARNING, ONCE THE DRIVE IS FLASHED WITH 8050L FIRMWARE IT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO REFLASH IT WITH 8163B FIRMWARE!

I have received a few pm's asking if/how you can reflash 8163b firmware back onto the drive.

Here is the answer.
you can find the firmware at:
http://tdb.rpc1.org/

But, the flasher has not worked for anyone that I know of.

The only sure way I know to reflash the drive back to 8163b is through the use of an external piece of hardware that connects to the firmware chip. This external hardware costs alot more than another 8163b drive. So, don't flash your drive to a 8050l, unless you are either sure you want an 8050l or, don't care if your 8163b becomes toast.

I recieved one today, flashed it with the firmware and tested the drive on my 1.0/160gb/thomson xbox. Works fine, reads originals but when I copy a file to my hd its the same speed my thomson drive reads.

Is this speed limited in the firmware?

yes. the firmware determines evrything really.

Excuse me, i am italian, i want to know 1 thing, there is a guide for mount this drive in the xobx without use the original drive too???
wich component i must use for this operation??
Which wire i must solder into the 8163?
THANKS A LOT!!!!

hey folks,

i'm trying to find the most important spots on the gdr-8163b for a mod without any addons but its somehow difficult as i dont have the original lg xbox drive. i've read all pages but didnt find anyone who just followed the ready signal to the panasonic chip or to any other equivalent spot which can be used on the 8163b.
so i please everyone with a multimeter and a orig. xbox lg, spot the ready point.
from my point of view this is the first step which has to be done before talking about any ics, opamps etc.

PLEASE, DO THIS FOR THE XBOX-SCENE COMMUNITY, IS IMPORTANT, AN EXCELLENT DVD DRIVE FOR XBOX AT ONLY 25€ IS NOT BAD!!!!
NOW I'M GOING TO ORDER AN LG 8163 BLACK BULK

@stilly82

the main mod is allready done as you can flash the drive. you will be able to read originals with it but its 'dirty' because you cant get discs recognised which arent inserted at boot for example. i really dont understand why nobody has done a deeper analysis with the orignal drive.

Exactly,i know!why anybody don't analize that drive for the community??? I don't understand nothig of electronic!!!
i also know that there is a firmware flasher for that drive (8050L)!!!!
THANKS MENELIK!!!

If anyone's interested, Newegg has the drives back in stock

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc....-136-050&depa=0

I'm not sure if I should get one now or hold off. I'm not too fond of the wire mess with that op amp hanging out..

Those points probably don't exist because the electronics on the pcb are different, otherwise they would be found already, there's more electronics on that pcb than that Panasonic chip.

Most of the people that are actively designing a mod have something working, only the Ready signal doesn't work.



Please people read all the post in this thread before making a post yourself, the people in this forum made that flasher and we are analyzing the LG drive, it just isn't that simple, and Micysoft didn't intend it to be easy.

Try to keep this thread clean by giving useful info so any newcomers can easely read whats going on.

And if anyone has some news they will post it because we all wan't this drive to work.

Wenid man, your work here will be missed, hope you will recall your decision at some later time.

@maximilian0017

as i have no origjnal drive i cant give any proof but first of all:
the main chipset is the same, if it wouldnt the firmware wont work. and yes you are right when you say that the layout is different. all i can say is that the ready signal comes out of the panasonic chip. the problem is that the panasonic might miss other inputs to give the ready output. anyway, the first step is to take find the ready output on the panasonic. the ready signal from the drive to the mobo is only bridged with a resistor so that there might be a good chance to retrace the signal.

and yeah, a datasheet of that chip would make things easier, but i couldnt find it.

btw, i got the same opinion like tiros on #444

we should try that before we start using external chips.

Max,
It is still not right.
If you are happy with it like it is, move along like your pal wenid.
Menliks info is usefull, if it helps figure out the CORRECT hack for this unit.

Menilik,
I do not have the original drive either
It certainly makes sense to see if the mod can be done without a chip.
You are 100% correct in your analysis. The controller chip is the same. Ready may be a signal conflict after flashing, but it has to be there. The only way to tell is trace with multimeter. That is the first step.
I think the reason it is not fully investigated is that not enough people have the original drive to work with. Those that do seem to be unwilling/unable to pursue this method.

Has anyone tried the equiv. point by TrueBB in post #445?

@tiros

we should give that idea a try, its just a try which has to be made. im also happy to see that we all have the same aim. the past flaming topics werent really productive for this.

im afraid that it isnt as easy as it sounds within the ready signal coming from the panasonic chip. the problem is that we dont have a datasheet of it which makes things really difficult. no one knows if the ready signal comes from xy inputs to the panasonic and result into one output signal. its not sure that the circuit of the whole ready circuit is done on the pc drive but the most important is that if the chipset is the same it has to be possible. the worst case might be we gotta make too many retracing. but once again, its the first step which has to be made. im really sorry that i dont own a lg, i'd enjoy on trying to find the points.
but i want lazy too:

i've checked the whole right side of the panasonic and about 50 other points on the mobo to find the ready signal but i couldnt find it. i also tried the point in #445 but they all ended in a static init or a annoying 'unknown'.

im afraid that we have to go on by trial and error. we may need to make a complete difference-sheet on both drives.

at last i have a question left.

the most important points are trayin, trayout and ready. the drive works without any soldering and just the firmware flash but only at boot time i believe. media inserted after the boot procedure arent checked because the mobo doesnt know to check. why? because it needs a signal to trayout and trayin and at the end a signal from ready. but: isnt the ready signal enough for this? they only difference should be that the box doesnt know that the drive is closed or not. you might be right when you say that the box needs to know that the tray is closed to start next procedures but cant we just set trayout on high - so let the box think the tray is always cloesed? when a media is inserted the ready signal should push the box to check what type of media.

what i did so far may be really flawed, it was the only solution without external chips so far:
when the tray is out trayin got a high and when its inside trayout got a high (trayin low). what i did was to just use the hfm signal for trayout. i know its dirty but isnt it enough when the box knows that the tray is in when it has a media inserted? is the trayout on high really a must without a media? moreover i took ldout (or ldin, they seem to be the same signal, dunno) for trayin which means that when the tray is out the box should know that because ldout gives a high to trayin.

since i cant find the damn ready signal i cant proof if that will work or not.

a note to tiros:
i dont care that the drive closes itself if opened and i push the power off button, its dirty i know, i will take a look on such things when the major mod is done

and please dont start flaming on me, the whole topic may be bogus, i even dont have the original drive here so it would be absolutely stupid to say that it works

Even though I think that a chip will not be necessary in the end, the following tells you how to wire up the 74HCT04 instead of the OpAmp.

Jumper #4 to #5
Ground #7,#9,#11,#13
+5Volts #14.

The signal needing inversion will enter(from drive) on #1 and exit(to xbox) on #2.
The signal only needing buffering will enter on #3, and exit on #6


If you would like to experiment with "ready" you should only need to buffer and not invert. So:
Remove ground from #9, #11
Connect #8 to #11
Now ready will enter(from drive) on #9, and exits on #12 (to xbox)

I hope this is clear enough.
Maybe someone else can clean it up.

For perfect operation you need all three signals.
Did you buffer the post #445 point?
What voltage measurements do you see when loading a disc?

A datasheet really wont help. It doesn't matter since we only need equivalent point. The 616 ready signal is a GPIO pin of the control MPU. It is not created by multiple signals.

Sorry to ask this question so late in the works of things:

Yes, I have read all 30 some pages of this topic for the last several weeks.

I have not noticed anywhere where anyone has talked about changing the bios on the original H-LG drive in the xbox so that it reads CD-Rs.. Isn't that the real problem? I mean, it works otherwise, doesn't it? I understand that people would like to replace their current broken say Sammy drive or something with a store-bought LG, but what about us folks who have an LG that works fine and just want it to read CD-Rs? Is there a different topic for that? The people who have 1.6b xboxes so far have all reported (as far as i have seen) that they all have the LG drive. Wouldn't they like a bios you just flash and viola, a drive that reads anything?

I support your effort to find a solution to the store bought drive. If/when my xbox LG drive dies, i would like to go to the store and grab a PC LG drive and flash it / wire up a chip and have 100% working back again. For right now, though, it would be really nice to have my working xbox LG drive read CD-Rs.. Anyone for a Firmware hack? I know nothing of hacking firmwares, and it may be hard wired (though i doubt it) that it can't read CD-Rs, but i just haven't seen any responses along this line, so i decided to ask.

By the way, Awesome work so far. When you find the signals, an inverting buffer is the way to go. I'm an electrical engineer, so I do know what I'm talking about here, just not when it comes to hacking firmware.

i'm no expert - but i'm pretty sure this isn't being done because the firmware that resides on these drives are encrypted. And breaking that encryption is most likely not going to happen.

The purpose of this entire thread is not to enhance the performance of the HL-DATA xbox dvd drives - it is to provide a cheap - readily available pc drive that can be easily modified to work within an xbox.

OK. Thanks for the response. I agree that a cheap drive that can be put in the xbox would be cool too.. I just dont need one yet.

@tirus
since the #445 spot isnt clear enough i can give no proof on that. someone has to followe the trace from the connector to the panasonic chip for this - and please guys, use a multimeter for that, scopes arent useful here. at this moment im waiting that someone tell me the spot....

@tiros
I took a look on the datasheet:

74hct04.pdf


and dont understand your circuit. i'd do the following:

LDOUT to #1 and #2 to TRAYOUT
Bridge #4 and #5
LDIN to to #3 and #6 to LDOUT (buffered to clean the signal)
when we finally found the damn ready signal:
Bridge #9 and #10
Ready from drive to #8 and #11 to Ready on the mobo (buffered to clean the signal)
and to make it clean ground #13
finally ground #7 and give #14 +5 VCC

its easy and simple, maybe i'll get the chips tomorrow.
anyway, havent found ready yet......

maybe we should use a 74hc04 instead. i think its better because vcc can be set to 3.3 V which would give an output of +3 V. im saying this because i've never measured more than 3,3 V on originals drives within trayout etc.

If you put these signals thru the 74HCT, you will measure around 3.4v (trayin/trayout), even though you're putting 5v into the inverter.

WRT my previous post, the READY buffered signal would have appeared on pin 10, not pin 12. This was a typo that the board will not let me edit. Your circuit sounds fine to me.

WRT 3.3
Wenid said that 3.3 was not acceptable. He seemed to think that the 3.3 was not high enough since he couldn't get it working. Maybe i misinterpereted. I really don't know why he could not make LDOUT connection directly since no inversion is needed.
I suggested the HCT because of the low VIH, where 3.3 would always work, at HCT VCC of 5volts, effectively amplifying the signal. I have long suspected that the "boost" is unnecessary. Perhaps he was reallly having some other problem.


At that time my only interest was something more reliable than the OpAmp approach, since wenid thinks that 5volt output was a requirement. Maybe it is not. I have not verified. Is the target logic on the main board @5volts? I don't think so. If its 3.3, don't even go through the chip for that signal. I am really thinking that likely the chip can be eliminated completely.

i took a closer look on the dc specs on both hex inverter and noticed that the hct model got a bigger tolerance for VIH (min 2V) on VCC from 4,5 to 5,5. with the ht model the VIH depends on the VCC, anyway, both would work with VCC +5V because LDIN and LDOUT got 3,3V. because we dont know the voltage of ready the htc is the better choice, we'd get probs on the ht model when ready got 2.0 on hi.
moreover i can defiently proof that a trayin and trayout of 2,4 V works fine. I have some experience with other drives like tsh-352 from samsung and the original drives. i think that +5 is too much as i havent seen a orignal drive with +5 on trayin. we're lucky that the ic on the mobo has a big tollerance with that.
this also means that you dont need to buffer the signals, I just buffer because its possible and more secure, it may be totally needless.
if we find the ready signal i'm sure that i can write a nice tutorial and finish this mod.

maybe i can give you a proof tomorrow, dunno if my radio shack got the devices on store. im pretty sure that it will work.

Good work menelik.
I can tell you clearly understand the problem and know how to proceed.
I'm glad you agree that the 5 volt swing is not needed. That was really my first clue that wenid might be off in the wrong direction with regard to yellow wire interface. If that mainboard logic is 3.3 volt, sending in 5 volts from an OpAmp OR an HCT could produce a long term reliability problem.

Why don't you try tracing the tray switches on your PC drive to see where they go.
Since one signal is already the correct polarity, if you can find the inverted trayout point we will be one step closer to no chip hack. I don't have drive yet.


IIRC The ready signal starts low, when the tray is first closed, it momentarily goes hi, then back low until disk spins up (if there is one) . If a disk was found the signal goes back hi, if not it just stays low. You kind of need a scope to see it. I don't think you will find it with DVM

http://www.bbdsoft.com/ide.html

Has anyone checked to see if the signals we are looking for are actually being put out on an ide pin? The link above gives the pinout for an ide connector. The same info the xbox receives by the yellow cable must be received by a pc through the ide connector. The only question is, does the ide output it in the same format we are looking for. Can someone check this, so we can officially rule it out.

Nope, the only usefull info you can get from it is an activity led, the rest is all sent trough a databus signal
(not a bad idea)

Is there someone in HOLLAND near MEPPEL that is willing to give me a look at their LG drive?, maby we can trade something for the favor.
It will probably take about an hour to analize the pcb and get some much needed answers.

i ve have just receive 2 new LG 8163B drives....
but i cant find anyware the ...EXE... to change the firmware...

is it possible to pm me a link? thanks

update:

hex inverter works....im not sure if its stable but it seems to work. the final proof is only possible when i find the ready signal.
i've got a clue that the ready signal can be found there:



if thats right the signal is also there (left is the original pcb):



please notice the different circuit. i couldnt find a datasheet of this chip so i cant say whats the matter with it. anyway, i dont get a hi there when media is inserted. i checked a new 8163b without the firmware on it and got no hi too. im not sure if my flashed drive is broken or not, someone has to check this for me.

a good note is that i god the right media check , a evox cd will display as evox-cd, video as video etc., but dont ask me why...when i hold the ready signal in my hand and touch it sometimes it checks and everything is fine..it isnt connected to the pcb im no magician too. i thaught that it may need to be set to ground but this didnt help. i think that im on the right way..

i also used the 74hc04 because my radioshack didnt had the 74hct04. anyway, i think that this is even the better option because we dont need to set vcc to 4.5 - 5.5. i used 3.3 volt and it worked fine for ldin which gets inverted and goes to pin3 on the connector.

btw, when you use 5 volt for vcc you wont get 3,3 out of any exit. take a closer look on the datasheet. maybe i havent understand you right dunno..after i know that we dont need 5 volts the hct model isnt the better option anymore. please correct me if im wrong

update:

i've given up to find the ready point without an original drive. its just nonsense , for a right research i need an original drive. if anyone can tell me that point i will finish my tutorial.

so are these Hitachi drives worse than the new Phillips?

hmmz..this questions are really annoying.

You're right. I measured the output on the 74HCT, and you get 5vdc. But after I wired it up, I got 3.3 or very close to 3.3vdc. Thats what I meant by "you'll measure 3.3vdc". Sounds like you guys are right about the 3.3vdc logic. I'll have to try this to see if it works better or is more reliable. I've always been going by what the linux pages say..

Menelik,

Glad to hear 5 volts is not a requirement.
I agree it may even be dangerous, long term.


Anyone who used OpAmp/HC/HCT and 5 volts will be at risk. With 3.3v the HCT has no advantage to HC. Use what is available. I suggest waiting anyway since within the next week there will very likely be a no chip soulution available. Menlik is only using the chip for safety during his experiments. Can one of you with the real drive get hold of a DVM and participate here?


WRT ready:
If you are using the picture in post #445 it does not show PCB traces under controller chip. I don't know why that red line points to that particular pin. It could go anywhere. This signal was the only real problem for 616 too. Eventually I guided a user with a dvm over the phone. I never even saw the original drive.

In the 616 case the ready pin on PC drive had no other connection, and IIRC the xbox 605 sammy only connected yellow wire to that pin (thru 100 ohm). Maybe this info will help you find it.

It sounds like you are not using the buffer for LDOUT, correct?
Have you any luck in finding the other tray signal inverted so no chip will be required? I'm certain ready will not require inversion when it is found.

Do you know the instruction set the controller uses?
Do you have Oscope?

Still waiting for my drive.

@tiros

no i have no oscope....which would make it easier to find the points (i'd need the original though)
and no i didnt buffer ldout because it wasnt needed
i wont continue to find the equivalent points because i havent the original drive, its kinda working blind...
...moreover i took a closer look on many pcitures and compared the original and the 8163b pcb. after that i am not that sure that we'll find the equivalent points. the ready signal for example doesnt have to come from the panasonic as i saw the same trace going to the an22023...but dont forget, this is just a thesis and i only worked with pictures.
i also dont believe that ready wont need a inversion whenever its found. if not there must be a workaround since my magic finger can send the ready signal

btw, when i used my finger for the ready signal the drive worked perfectly. it even closed itself on poweroff.
this should mean that the opamp is needless because of two things:
you dont need to amplifie anything.
you dont need to reverse with an opamp as the hc makes it easier.
but: the opamp is just another way to get it working, there are several ways which lead to finish.

i cant stress this enough:
please dont threat this too serious unless i delievered the final proof. i hate puplishing without proofs.


status: still waiting that someone finds the ready signal.

Because that trace goes to an22023 I do not think it is the ready signal.
Meanwhile maybe you could trace the Trin switch around on the LG and see if it goes through any circuit that could invert it on way to CPU.

I have a scope and if nobody produces the ready signal by DVM trace out, I will look for it next week (trin as well). Since I know exactly ready signal it looks like, I may be able to find it without original drive.

Well, I finally got around to reading the signals from my thompson using a digital o-scope. It [thompson dvd] requires different signals that what we have, but we got it to work. Heres the schematic and picture of the solder points. I'm still learning MS visio, I hope to make it look better later. This is using a GDR-8163b manufactured in Jan 2005.







Basically the HFM point (not the HFMDRV) is used as the ready point. The cap and resistor components add a delay for the ready signal. A larger resistor, aka 200k or 300k will also work, but the disk will take more time to become available. Although not shown in the schematic, I used a Y-adapter for power to the dvd drive.

If ppl are interested, I can post a signal trace of the original thompson dvd drive I have tested.

Special thanks to my brother on helping on this project and wenid for pulling the firmware. I appreciate all the other help that ppl in this thread have posted to contribute to the success of this mod. More pics and hopefully a full tutorial to come, as I'm many hours past my bed-time.

i can proof that this works.
but i just used any diodes are got aournd here (smd without labels, should be a standard one) and took the biggest smd capacitor (got my better multi on my work, couldnt measure) as you wanted 10pf.
very good work truebb. but you should use the hc model with 3,3 volt instead.

this is a quick image, it shall only show how you could place the 74hc14

@truebb

i get an unknown on a original xbox game, everything else works and the original is readable. can you confirm this? i guess i gotta get the right capacitor.

menelik,

The resistor and cap values are important, as they determine the time constant. So, 100Kohms * 10uF = 1sec (approx). This is what worked for me.
Thats 10microfarads, not 10 puff; typo menekik?. But you should be be able to use any combination to reach at least 1sec, aka 1Mohm and 1uF should work, or 10Kohm and 100uF should work, etc.

oh yeah this was a typo, 10 pf would be a bit to weak

Also,
I don't think thats the best place to mount the 74hct. The location you picked is on the laser suspension (the rubber bushings) and any external wires could create a shock load. There are a couple of pockets under the board that may be better. See if you can put it under there...

moreover we should use a 10M resistor and a 100 nF (0.1 uF) as they are cheaper and easier to get. 10uF capacitors arent easy to get.

the place is fine because there are no movements and the cables are fixed to that they dont disturb the laser. im open to any better positions, just put it in there and didnt look for other places.

add:
we could stay on SMD then too, correct me if i'm wrong?

Specifically, you know the path from Ready signal throughout the original xdrive?
I would like to take a look if it is possible.
I still believe it may be possible to eliminate the chip.

To save space, bend all IC legs flat, cut off points, solder to stubs.
As someone said earlier, connect all unused CMOS inputs to GND or VCC.
VCC should be pin 14, should be 3.3 volt as menlik said.
In this circuit, the HC(t)14 is a MUCH better choice than the HC(t)04.

Congrats on the results!

@tiros
i took a look on the hc14 and couldnt see an imrpovement for this case as we have constant voltages of aorund 0 and 3,3. the hysteresis should have no affect here. it even could make some probs because the bigger hysteresis could make the on/off inaccurately.

?

@truBB

forget about my post about the capacitor and resistor ratings, prices are almost the same and we have enough space for elkos.