I know I know.."enough with the jaggies talk"

I apologize for setting higher standards for my beloved eyes, and theres no fuggin excuse for a tennis game, with a small crowd, a few buildings, 2 characters, a ball and a fuggin net, to look this horrid.

And NO its not EA thats making it, wtf is going on here

Games like this, with few characters on screen, and small arenas should be so detailed that our eyes would be tricked to believe its real.

I cant lay down and take it like others, I cannot and will not.

These are dated for today...

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/...15072601083.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/...15072559786.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/...15072558489.jpg

start thinking of excuses now....like they dont have newer dev kits, or theyve been working nonstop and developing games while sitting in their own scat. None will matter, its poop

I also figured we needed some jaggy talk about a game other than Tiger Woods, start the flaming!! Im ready!!

Actually, those look really impressive. You see, it's not that the game is jaggy, it's that the courts, players, buildings, and whatnot that they used as source models are.








I'm sure they're working on it, man. But I'm with you, they look like crap. I'd rather them not release these kinds of pics at all, or at least with a watermark saying

Resolution: 1024x576
Anti-aliasing: off
Anistropic filtering: off

so that it's obvious that it will get better.

I couldnt agree more. It pains me because I know people are out there saying "thats 360?!?"

maybe I should stop posting such horrid things?

Is Top Spin even being made by the same developers again? I know MS got rid of the game and 2K Sports now own it, but did they grab the original team too?

Seems strange because the stars had their own animations in Top Spin but the clips for Top Spin 2 showing the new player Federer with totally wrong animations, for example a jumping two-handed back hand when he is clearly a one handed player and rarely (if ever) jumps into shots. Pretty dodgy.

Seems like a quick update rather than any real improvement. Trying to make a quick buck on a game that wasn't even that good. More like a decent arcade tennis game. Smash Court 2 on PS2 was much better, regardless of the lower quality visuals.

It's normal for launch games to look like shit, Just look at gears of war. The developers are hardpressed for time to make the launch in just a few months. I don't expect much from launch games from any system. Alot of the games are using only one core which will make the 360 just a little bit more powerful than the Xbox.

halo 1 was a launch game......

IMO, still the best game on the xbox....

The graphics still rate in the top 10 xbox games.....

yeah that does look like crap...

Tennis games are usually some of best looking games on any system... due to the fact that there isn't much to render... you have a cort and 2 players and the rest is fluff... the court can be done with as little as 2 figgin polygons meaning that all the detail can go into making the characters look as real as possible...

I attribute the crappyness to
-jaggies, in tennis games jaggies especially across the top of the net is annoying as hell
-lack of shaddows/read time lighting... seriously where are the player's shaddows?
-poor character modesl, the models are OK in spots and crap in others... the legs and faces look pretty good but the arms and clothing look horrid.
-incorrect resolution... if it's not 1280x720 it's not a true screenshot IMO.

At this point the current gen Top Spin honestly looks better than this

I agree.. why bother releasing pictures.

As for people getting disappointed with next gen screenshots... only us nerds who care about the 360 look at these things... my non-nerdy friends who inquire... I show them the PRG3 trailer and the WarDevil trailer... that's all they need to see

I couldn't agree more than a Tennis game should be mindblowing in the same vein as Fight Night Round 3's tech demo. There simply isn't that much to deal with on screen. But, I can only offer my own rational: It will look better in motion. I'm hoping that games like this get a final coating of AA before the final build and that it will look stunning in motion. That's the only thing I can come up with...

I know nothing about the actual game however - its a tennis game so its likely to hit ALL platforms in order to recoup meaning its working with assets designed for ps2 and upressing. The upshot is that its GOING to look like exactly that... an upressed ps2 game.

The jaggies here WILL NOT be in the final game however. That image is NOT 720p (minimum resolution) and therefore we can safely assume its also not 2xFSAA which is the MINIMUM allowed AA.

I'd just stop looking at pics unless they ARE 720p resolutions Deftech... oh.. and you're still a graphics whore.

yes sir, that I am. Glad to see youre up and around posting, I know youre busy but we need more input from you in these days of unrest

yea while the other games (with the exception of doa3) looked like crap. Another reason is halo was a first party game, those devs usually get certain "luxuries" that third parties dont get. History will tell you that most first party devs generally have better looking games.

I dont agree that halo1 is still in the top 10 best looking xbox games but it was pretty good looking for a launch game

By the way, its the same company makingthe game, its just that MS dropped them (for whatever reason) and 2k games picked them up.

You must not have seen or played many xbox games to think Halo, the original, is in the top 10 graphically. Its bland and hard to look at(except for cut scenes).

But if thats what your eyes tell you, so be it, theyre yours afterall. Im just glad I dont have them

I thought it was 4xAA as the minimum since it will only be like a 5% performance hit.
I sure hope games are not 2xAA...........2xAA is almost useless IMO.

The more I look at the pics, that looks like 2xAA...................
I say this as even a game with 6xAA @1024x768 still has some jaggies, they just are not visible unless you are looking for them like myself and Deftech do

haha sucks to be us huh?

I honestly believe that 720p combined with 2x would be good. Good enough to where I dont rip my hair out in disgust.

I guess it depends on how it scales it though. Using amped 2 as reference, running 720p, even on the 77", jaggies vanished for the most part with no AA being used. Couple that will 2x and Id have no problem playing.

Yeah MX vs ATV in 1080i was like that on my 52". The jaggies were almost not there. Then again, we must remember that more complex worlds/characters equals more jaggies.

Example, the original Unreal Tournament @ 1024x768 with no AA is almost jaggie free. The more complex UT 2004 @ 1024x768 with no AA is full of jaggies.

I'm just not sure if 2xAA will cut it for me, I might have to stick to my PC. Hell, I havent played my xblock in about 2 months, its just my cheap mediabox anymore

agreed as far as complexities = more jaggies to blind us with.

I havent played a game on mine in Id say...atleast 3 months. I cant, graphics hurt my face, I wont put myself thru that. I was susprised at how few jaggies doom 3 had. in some parts, it would be very smooth looking, very impressed. Then you get games that arent hard to run like doom 3 and the jaggies are the size of your arm

pisses me off!!!!!!!!

its not easy being a whore, we need to start a support group!

exactly

No shit, I almost hate being a GFX whore. On my computer, I spend more time making a game look great and run great, then I do playing them. Its a sickness

Oh I know the feeling. When I tried the FEAR demo, I jacked it all up and ot froze..muwhahaha

I had to play @ 8x6 and do some overclocking, something I havent done on a pc in years.

Deftech, i though you had more scrupulous eyes then that. I'm the biggest graphics perfectionist there is. Halo 1 still has some of the best graphics on the xbox. If you can't see that, you need to re-evaluate your "graphic whore stance"

The texture quality in halo 1 is the best, and even better then halo 2. Especially the up close textures...perfectly clean detailed, much better then halo'2 or any other xbox games....and that goes for chaos theory's. There is so many little details in halo 1 that most people do not recognize. That was one of my complaints with halo 2, that it did not retain all the texture, and other graphical quality that halo 1 had. In some areas halo 2 surpassed it, but in others it did not even meet it. I caulk that up do to the limitations of the xbox hardware; increase one area, and another will have to be decreased.

EDIT: I'm not as hung up on jaggies as i am with texture and overall picture quality. Not having jaggies is a plus, but not as important as the other graphical stuff, imo. For example, i'd rather play games in 480p on my computer monitor which gives a much better picture (clean textures, etc.), but more jaggies then playing on my TV in 480i; where because of interlace the jaggies are much less, but the texture picture quality is horrible not clean....blurred.

Interlaced gives you more jaggies since the pixels are lined up accordingly, so when a horizontal 185 degree line is displayed, you see the two 1080 degree lines (one started a pixel higher than the other). This is a jaggie. In progressive scan, the pixels are still lined up, but much closer together. You still get the horizontal jaggies, such as the 185 degree stacked lines, but vertical jaggies are much less noticeable.
Interlaced 480i pixels, such as on your tv, are also much more seperated (.9mm ish, I think), which would result in more noticeable jaggies since the space between(for example) the two 180 degree horizontal lines is much larger.

Basically, 480p offers less visible jaggies because of how the pixels are displayed. I guess it depends on what kind of display you are using if your 480i tv has less jaggies, though.

Foe, I think halo looks like a pile of poo, not exaggerating either.

I thought it was ugly at launch, and 4 years later its gotten even uglier.

Its bland. Im not talking about texture quality and such, Im talking about just looking at the game overall and I see bland.

shadows and lighting are sad. lets not turn this into a "is halo a good looking game" I dont think it looks good, you do.

Games that my eyes find sexy are both Rallisports, PGR 2, all Splinter Cells, all DOA's and Ninja Gaiden, Recon 2(to an extent), Max Payne 2, Doom III, Moto GP 2, Amped 2, Unreal Champs 1 and 2.

Hell, I think Brute Force kills Halo in graphics, and fable isnt too shabby either considering the lushnes thats there.

I just named 19 games that look what I believe to be better than Halo. There are more, I just dont remember them. I dont recall what halo 2 looks like, Ive erased anything regarding that pile, from my mind entirely.

Playing games on my hdtv in 480i has much less jaggies then playing them in 480p. And, the jaggies are that much more noticeable when i play a game in 480p om my computer monitor. So go figure.

agreed.

friends used to wonder why I whined about jaggies until they started getting 480p sets themselves. Go figure.

now some of them have huge ass tv's and screens for their projectors, and they are as pissy as me when it comes to jaggies.

we all clamor for HD and NO more effing Jaggies!!!!!!!!

gimme!!!!!!!

Agree to disagree

I agree with you about all the games you mentioned look good, but not better then halo 1; with the exception of NG, RS2, and Chaos theory looking better.

Unreal champ 1, and splinter cell 1 and 2 looked worse, imo. The textures were horrible ( muddy and not high res) up close, and the flashlight in halo 1 was better then any light in splinter cell 1 or 2.

Brute forces character models were very good, but the environments were so horrible bland and repetative that it almost made me throwup. Textures were shit too.

see, we can have somewhat mature debates without arguing.

I agree about Halo textures, still up there with the best on any console game ever. But the rest has been beaten by more than 10 other Xbox games.

The thing about Halo 1 is that it's a very clean looking game. Halo 2 was a bit muddy.

Topspin2 jaggy?

i loved topspin1.. and am gonna play a lot of topspin2..
so i hope not

with kind regards
Marco

Tetris looks better.