"The Xbox 360 version was also in attendance, and we got to play a few single-player sessions using the wireless gamepad. Perhaps the most impressive thing we can say about the Xbox 360 version is that it looks a lot like the PC version, though the PCs we played on supported higher-res textures and what appeared to be larger color depth. Still, all the levels, all the monsters, and all the weapons were intact in the Xbox 360 version, right down to the scripted events that showed the evil Strogg aliens doing horrible things to our human marine buddies."


http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/qua..._6133490-2.html


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This is getting fucking pathetic. They can't even port Quake 4 perfectly. Why in the fuck would they need to use lower res textures and a lower color depth if the X360 is a BEAST?

A 6800 GT will run Quake 4 better than the X360 with it's "mighty" R500 core. Also the game has jaggies up the ass. What's up with that shit?

But...but..the 10MB eDRAM

*sigh*

Wedding-shirt, what happened to you? You use to be rational and level headed, now you seem bitter, mean and jaded.

He has eaten Andy's tainted Sony .

Finnaly a plausable answer!

Well for everyone's benefit I will attempt to dispel some of the misconceptions here.

1. The game is running in 32bit colour on the x360, if you could run a higher colour depth I don't understand why you would want to because the eye can't really perceive the higher depth, in addition most display devices and video cards don't support a higher colour depth. The error was most likely made because of a miscalibrated display device.

2. The higher textures simply may not fit into the 512 MiB of memory available in the console. 512 for a console is an excellent amount of memory. Please keep in mind that the 10 MiB of eDRAM isn't used to store, cache or filter textures. The GPU is responsible for the bilinear filtering of textures and applying them to polygons.

3. The game on the x360 isn't finished yet, but because the hardware is fixed you can be assured the developer is configuring all settings to make optimal use of available resources. For 300 US dollars the x360 is a very impressive system, it may be possible to get a well equipped PC that can outperform the x360, but the cost of the system will be several times higher.

There is absolutely no excuse for the X360 not to run that game flawlessly. If a 9800 pro can run Doom 3 pretty good and a 6800 GT can toy with it, there's no reason in the world the X360 should have to tone down the textures and color depth.

And 512 MB of RAM should be more than enough to run the game with the highest res textures available.

I already payed for my X360 and i'm going to enjoy it for what it is. But i'm not fooled anymore. This system doesn't really compete with the PS3.

This is another DreamCast. But that's ok with me as I really enjoyed the DreamCast.

P.S. I bet the PS3 can run Quake 4 perfectly.

Exactly hrm how much does a 6800gt cost? About the price of the core package alone.

Also throw in the fact that the game is still in the development phase. Take those two factors and add them up. The sum you get is you are a complete and total Negative asslip.

The PS3 will have an RSX which is rumored to be a higher clocked 7800 GTX.

But you're ok with the X360 having a weaker card than a 6800 GT?

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!

If all you are going to do is spam the x360 game forums with posts about how you think the x360 is crap and ps3 is the almighty devout console of god, why don't you go to a forum that is set for that and consists of all you other little dumbass fanboys who can't just let it go. Meanwhile I'll be here enjoying the immense eye candy I see over that piece of shit mgs4 trailer that you are so goddamned in love with. No one cares and quite frankly its getting fucking annoying. Now if you want to act like a respectable member, there is nothing wrong with having an opinion but when all you do is flood every goddamn post with the same bullshit you make yourself look like a little bitch ass 7 year old. So I propose grow up and quit being a whiney bitch or leave. Either is fine with me.

there are a lot of things wrong with yor statment wedding-shirt. First of comparing consoles and computers is like, dare i say comparing apples to oranges. the simple nature of tvs makes them require a lot less to look just as good. think of it the resolution of a standard deffinintion tv is the lowest seeting on your monitor and looks like crap on that, whille it look rediiculously good on a tv. secondly, its not a true cut and dry port, but in some sense it is. it was designed for the pc and then adaptied to the xbox, which while a crap load more powerful in terms of processing power, lacks the same amount of memory that a computer has. and wtf do u mean that it will run beter on the ps3, it wil run the same, there will only be slight diffrences, but not insanly higher textures and the like, just look at curent gen consoles. u could argue that the xbox is more power (it is), but most people don't notice the differnece in none exclusive titles. this is gunna look great no mater how u cut it, and ur arguments are are flawed. i won't notice the small color details, just lik i won't notica game at 61 fps vs one at 60fps. this is how i see the development so far, pc's are like ferraries, and the 360 is like a meclaren. so the meclaren is faster, but the devs are used to driving the ferrari, so when they get the meclaren for the first little bit they just got to get used to it. once they get used to using the power and not the memory we'll be in busness.

dont get worked up over him, Mjkthirdeye, thats what he wants. his ignorance is getting old with me too but i find his comments sad more then agrivating. he understands so little that we should all pitty the poor fool.

the doom 3 engine was built with nvidia technology so of course its going to run more easily on nvidia hardware.

also i dont think its that big of a deal about the texture res because there are other games in development that are still not using high res textures but will (PGR3's building textures for example) so just because their not high res now doesnt mean they wont be when it ships.

im sorry but your an idiot if you dont believe the fact that ANY next gen system could probably run the doom 3 engine standing on its head. the engine is what almost 2 years old already and in the world of technology that is old. i would go as far to say that even the U3engine doesnt give us the full picture to how powerful these next gen systems are. when newer engines start to surface the games will continue to get better.

Grow up.

Yeah he really is....

Well, with that said I'm going to take Xombe's advice to Deftech and put your ass on ignore. There is no point in me trying to make an idiot of someone who does a pretty good job of it on his own. Finally Wedding, I hope that you stop being such a douche for the better of the community and that you can at some point make decent posts again for your sake because you really show yourself to be a total horse's ass. Thanks to Deftech for the wonderful advice. I advise all to follow suit against feeding his need for attention. eventually no one will see what he says and he can just talk to himself.

Sorry that this thread got so off topic.

Wedding-shirt their are plenty of games for xbox 360 that blow quake 4 for pc out of the water. Thats all I'm going to say, think about it.

I agree with you. I thought the COD 2 video looked very good. A lot better than Quake 4. I was expecting it to look like shit because it's another PC port but i'm impressed with it.

I just don't understand why it can't port Quake 4 perfectly. I'm seriously depressed about that shit.

OK now were finding common ground. The dev team has everything to do with it, and I guess they couldn't/or haven't had enough time to exploit the 360's power.

Because they're not fucking done yet?

I think you're taking this whole 360 thing way too hard. In the end, it's only a video game console, not a cure for cancer.

This cat has been a Sony groupie at heart for as long as I can remember.
So none of this surprises me at all.
I find it quite comical.

*Waites for Wedding's defense*

If you read my post the color depth is not toned down, it runs at full 32bit color. There is at least one excuse why the x360 can't run the game flawlessly, the game isn't finished yet.


There isn't any way to know yet. The GPU in the x360 is slightly more powerful than the PS3. Carmack himself states that he prefers the x360 over the PS3. I don't understand your line of reasoning and your rebuttle statements are blind conjecture.

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000040054627/
"He’s gone on the record at the recent QuakeCon with a killer quote that the Xbox 360 is ”the best development environment” he’s seen for a console."

"According to Carmack, the Xbox 360 has the best architecture and development tools so the game devs can do their jobs better. In contrast he thinks the PS3 will be harder to develop for with inital games being disappointing as a result."

This would indicate that the PS3 may not run Carmacks games as well.

Well I hate to but it'd be so wrong if I didn't

http://funnyjunk.com/pages/fool.htm

Agree


Let these ps3 fanboys prase the system all they want.........hell let them also hold out for ps3 thinking it's some kind of super beast or somthing. I fear they will be dispointed that it was not what they thought it was going to be.. Sony puts the least amount of good hardware they can so they don't loose money. The ps3 is just a marketing tool for their cell processor to show it off their going to start putting the cell in T.Vs all kinds of electronics their doing just like they did with ps2 focusing more on the cpu then the graphics engine hints thats why ps2 had bad jaggys. You never read much about graphics on ps3 80% of what you read is on the cell and i think it's more less a waste because a console can only do so much any way your not going to see the cells full workings on a console once again their focusing on the wrong thing again. Micorsoft seems to have its ducks row and know what its all about.

Next time I won't be so nice wedding-shirt. I didn't want to start a war like before but it happened anyways. @Thaz

what a waste of energy this thread is.....why did everybody reply, isnt he on the ignore list!?

I'm not a Sony or MS fan, i'm a fan of GAMES. But I love strong competition because it gives us better products.

I don't want Sony to die or MS to die, I want them both to keep fighting, with ups and downs because like that WE win in the end.

I'm more than a little concerned about MS because I feel they're making big mistakes and it may prove to be their end.

I don't want that. I want them to both be strong.

And I also like Nintendo in there as well. I think they will do well this time because they're shooting for a different market and they make great games.

I'm just a fan of videogames. When I say that the Xbox 360 games look like crap it's because they do IMHO. Not because I am a Sony fanboy or whatever.

Xbox 360 right now looks to me like a PC and that just isn't good enough to compete against a next gen console like the PS3.

Of course only time will tell but i'm more than just a little concerned. I hope MS pulls through.

In my own opinion, I think this has to do with developers. If you take a look at the game called Fahrenheit for PC and XBOX, you will notice that the graphics on PC are way more Superior than those on xbox. Now my question is why? Because the developers are too fucking lazy to make the game look on xbox as good as it does on PC (or versa) OR they simply hate to develop for console.

One more thing! NO ONE can tell me nor make me believe that xbox cannot run if not better, the same graphics as PC for that game (Fahrenheit).

Now the same thing applies for the 360 and the Q4...I believe that both consoles (360 and PS3) will KILL PC graphics (at least for time being).


Now you feel free to say anything you want, but know that I wont give a shit cuz I will be eating , drinking and watching TV while you do that!!


Here is to the next-gen !

It doesn't surprise me that some developers may be cutting corners so they can meet there launch date for X360 (That is still a launch title isn't it?)

Its tough not to expect some games being under-developed because 360 is only months away...

Within a years time we will finally see what the 360 can handle. If anything's the next dreamcast it will be Nintendo's new system, but thats my opinion. If Japanese have such small homes that they can't fit a xbox in it, there not going to have room to run around and fling a controller in the air to play a game...



Quake sucks anyways.

This doesn't surprise me, just look at Doom 3 (Same engine!) it likes having 512MB of memory dedicated to textures alone for its Ultra Quality, and thats when computers have a SEPERATE set of memory for the CPU!

Though having said that, one can get Ultra quality to run just fine on a higher level 256MB card, I can; just need to up the AGP Aperature to 256MB.

And as for the colordepth, I'm sure that was just a screw up, the difference in performance of 32bit or 16 bit just doesn't warrant the use of 16bit.

Wedding-shirt, we know much less about the PS3, and yet you already KNOW it's better? Lets go with that approach for a second. If 512 MB is not enough memory for textures, then Sony is SOL. Only half of their memory is used for the RSX. The other half goes to the Cell. So 256 vs ~384 is probably what we will run into, memory wise. The 360 is about flexibility. No hard feelings, just don't throw MS out of the picture just yet.

whatever dude

Actually the full 512 can be allocated to the GPU for textures, but the bandwidth design makes dipping into the CPU's 256 undesirable.

dont forget about the rumor a month or so back that states sony might have realized 512 wasnt enough to accomodate the ps3's acrhitecture so they were adding more.

just more reason why the price will be higher.

I havent heard anything since, so as far as rumors go, this one is probably really far fetched, more so than most rumors.

See, this is exactly why it's hard to draw a line this early in the game.

Indeed. So STOP TRYING.

Give both systems time to mature and, you know, be released.

This is getting old fast.

I love how people flock over anything John Carmack says. Am I the only person to notice how outdated the great DOOM3 engine was, when it was released? Please explain to me how that engine was any good. It had almost zero enviroment interaction. The AI was horrid. For its time, it was outdated and nothing more than an over glorified tech demo.

As already stated in this thread, the DOOM3 engine was created with Nvidia in mind. Hmmm, at that time it was for the Nvidia FX series. He also had his opinion that the Nvidia line would be better. If you will recall, every single product in the Nvidia FX line was beat by its ATI counterpart.

Read over your own quotes from the great John Carmack, they are his opinions. When a person says "In contrast he thinks the PS3 will be harder to develop for", the key thing in there is the word "thinks", he only thinks this, meaning it holds no truth and is only an opinion. This line could also mean he hasnt even used a PS3 devkit, as he only thinks. In my opinion, if he has used a PS3 devkit, it wouldnt be he only thinks, it would be he knows.

Since we are allowed to use opinions as fact, Gabe Newell thinks both the x360 and the PS3 will be a pain to develop for. So I could sit right here with the same idiotic train of thought and say the PC will be better because Gabe Newell says

Agreed.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that because "Thinking" can also be opinion.
For example: "I think this chicken is better tasting." You cannot say you "know" the chicken is better because that conjecture can be proven false with one counter-example. Can anyone understand what I'm trying to get at?

In my opiniion the developers are the key to next gen consul's

they are the ones who tap into the system and find ways to make better games.

I have said this before ..........x360 vs ps3......will come down to the online play.

Online play is the next revolution in home entertainment mark my words.(slowly but surely)



So who would you put your money on in that department??

Why try to silence this info?

You'd rather us buy the shittier version?

Thanks for the info Wedding, i'm buying the pc version.

I will break this down as I don't understand what you are trying to get at.


That was what I said and here is your response to that.

Now, didnt I just say what you said?
I would like to state how knowing can also be an opinion.

If I say "I know this chicken is (notice how I didnt say, will be) better tasting than that chicken" and I have tasted both of the chickens, this is also my opinion, but it is an opinion I know is fact in my mind. Here is another example, "I know Half-Life 2 is much better than DOOM3", this is also an opinion, yet since I have played both games, I do know which is better in my opinion.

Moving along here is the rest of my words


For the record I was not saying this is a fact, I was saying this could mean he never used a PS3 devkit.

Lets look at this line of John Carmacks once again.

"In contrast he thinks the PS3 will be harder to develop for with inital games being disappointing as a result."

Now, when I look at that line, IMO he has not used a PS3 devkit or he would have said the following.

"In contrast he thinks the PS3 is harder to develop for with inital games being disappointing as a result."

All I did was change one simple part of the sentence and it gains a whole new meaning. To me, there is a big difference between when someone says something IS and when they say something WILL BE.

I was the one who pointed out that Nvidia was the base technology for the doom 3 engine just like ATI was used for the source engine. so in those lines one could say that a game built using source would run better on the 360 then the ps3.

and as for AI and physics that all has little to do with the doom 3 engine itself. the doom3 engine is mostly used for what you see on the screen not whats going on behind the scene. how the developers script or pattern the AI is all dependent on the developer. as far as the physics go I dont see any reason why you couldnt add a physics engine on any game being developed with the doom 3 engine just like havock 3.1 is used in oblivion. again I know its a matter of opinion but whoever expect anything more then what doom 3 the game actually was then you didnt fallow the game while it was in development. the developers said from the start that they were keeping with the roots of the series and was basing the game around atmosphere and fear. with that said I think they succeeded, I loved the game for what it was and it made me jump plenty of times.

as for taking john carmack words so seriously I think there is good reason to do so. like itagaki and CliffyB, powerful technology means the world to John and that alone should say a lot for the 360. I thought it was reported a while back that he was one of the first (along with epic) to get the ps3 dev kits. so I think its safe to say that he has enough merit to voice his opinion. again if any of these devs were preaching about the ps3 like they are about the 360 it would be shoved in all of our faces, but because its about the 360 there is nothing but skeptism and doubt about anything positive said.

and as for gabe turkey munching newell, its obvious by the way that he speaks about the next generation in all areas (including PC with Vista) that he does not look forward to rewriting his codes to take advantage of the advances in technology. so his ignorance mutes any negative comments he may have to me about the next generation.

PS2/PS3 is catered for Japanese market, and they don't give a rat ass about on-line play (well most of them). only way Sony to win the online market if they provide the service for free. I played with few guys from Japan at XLink, they hardly speak ANY English, thats one reason they don't want to play online. ONLY people that are interested to play online is people speaks English, broken or fluid don't matter, i played few French people, only word they knew was f**k you. half of the Japanese people don't even know that

i know if Sony wants to they can provide the online service for free for all games that supports multiplayer. XLink Kai can do it with their console, i don't see why they cannot.

You know whats really funny about that, maybe everyone like Carmack, Itagaki, and Cliffy B. are not looking forward to rewriting their code, so they have taken the easy way out. Isnt that the great glory that is XNA. Developers can write code in their own way and the XNA will convert most to be optimized for the specified system. Hmmmm, looks to me like they are the ones looking for the easy way out. Gabe on the other hand is a person who would rather bitch about having to optimize his code rather than have the XNA do it for him....................

Why is DOOM3 not on PS2? Plain and simple, Carmack didnt want to rewrite his code.
Why is HL2 not being ported to PS2? Newell doesnt want to rewrite his code.
Why did FarCry get cancelld on the PS2, the developers didnt want to rewrite their code.
Why did the xbox version of MGS2 look inferior to the PS2 version? Kojima didnt want to rewrite his code.

Get the point yet?

Why do people compare a consul to a pc that is not a fair comparison

I believe that the game will look just as good especially when you play it at a smooth 720p or 1080i so relax..

there is no need to spend a fortune buying a new card that cost more than a consul....just go get your self a nice hd-tv sit back and enjoy this coming season

i get what point you are trying to make but your examples arent entirely accurate. I dont think thats the way XNA works (M_hael would be the person to ask as i think its included with every 360 dev kit.) i think it makes the code work more natural with any set-up, not just the 360s, as you could use it on everything from the pc to PDAs to the 360. MS even said it would be possible to use if to make ps3 games IF they allowed it. besides what difference does any of that make, its his fault if he doesnt want to take the most cost/time effecient approach to making next gen games. MS made XNA to help developers, others have done similar programs but none as advanced as MS, i dont see it a bad thing that MS is doing all they could to prepare everyone for the next gen.

also all the games that you pointed out not being ported to the ps2 is not because they would only have to rewrite the code but also because the ps2 isnt powerful enough to do the game justice. i was at home right now i could quote the devs who ported doom 3 on the xbox (not that many would take what i typed out a mag as direct quotes) but it went along the lines of saying that if they had to take out the shadow, bump mapping, and lighting then it wouldnt be doom 3 anymore it would be a game trying to like doom 3. HL 2 is said to require 5 xboxs to run because of memory restraints and shouldnt technically be able to run on the xbox, knowing that how can anyone expect the ps2 to do the game justice no matter how much optimizing was done. the same can said for far cry, as the technology behind far cry (the cryotech engine) works very similar to the doom 3 engine as it uses light and textures to mask a low poly model into making it look highly detailed. as for MGS2 you are right as far as the optimizing, in fact if i could find the site or mag where he states that there is little difference between the ps2 and xbox i will post it in this thread. that is weird however when you have MANY other devs saying the complete opposite and it goes to show how much work he put into the xbox version.

these arent my opinions they are facts from the devs. i see your point but you need to think your point through

i couldnt agree more. between everything from bottleneck to optimization, consoles and pcs will always be worlds apart no matter how similar the technology in them get.

Ok that's a good point, but only time will tell.
I got an eye on you

I didnt need to think my point through as I was very correct. The devs didnt want to rewrite their code, plain and simple. Here is an example. Splinter Cell used plenty of shadowing, bump mapping, and lighting and that didnt stop ubisoft from making a PS2 version did it? Why, because they were not to lazy to rewrite their code. The PS2 version of Splinter Cell CT even uses a special type of mapping, because they are not lazy and rewrote their code.

To answer Deftone's question: PC games typically use DirectX... which is the main API used in Xbox. The conversion was easy. You are correct, the devs were lazy and didn't want to rewrite what they didn't have to. That can be said about anyone who makes and sells a product.

As for Splinter Cell... I gotta disagree. I think Xbox's version is superior. And that's not just my opinion or me being a fanboy. Most reviewers agree the Xbox version of any Splinter Cell is better.

And for XNA... all that does is make it extremely easy for a PC developer to port a game to 360. It's a one way street. It does nothing for 360 devs I believe.