Here's how is goes: Top connection is ground (verified w/ a multimeter) - Center connection is the signal - Bottom connection is left alone - Trigger assembly is fully intact. When I use the pushbutton in SFII HF the character crouches and kicks and when I use the trigger the character does the assigned command (Mid Kick). I have not removed the POT's and used a resistor in place but I will let you know how that turns out.

What kind of button are you using? Is that pushbutton you're using connected to anything else at all? If you have the 2 wires connected to Signal and Ground, and then right to the pushbuttons contacts there's no reason it shouldn't work. Since crouching has squat to do with the Trigger, that just reeks of either something wired wrong or a Gremlin in the controller. I'm gonna go d/l the demo and wire up a controller and see if I can duplicate the problem.

Works fine here, post a pic of how you have your wiring done exactly.

This pic is of a third party controller but I have done exactly the same to a first party controller. This is the third controller I have attempted to mod and all results have been the same. When I first opened the controller and tested the triggers I could get the Right Trigger to work but never the left. Sometimes the left side would work but it was never consistent. When I reassemble the controllers all buttons and triggers work so I don't think I fried anything.

There's no way messing around on the Trigger is going to make the character duck. On a first party M$ controller those things have nothing at all to do with each other. There's no ground, common ground or common anything in the whole D-pad or any other digital button on the 360 controllers and the Triggers.

I just did essentially the same thing here on a Wireless controller and it works fine. I used a different type of button (tact switch) but it's the same electrically as far as the controllers concerned, push the button and you ground the signal line. That third party controller may be setup differently than the first party M$ ones are, I'd have to see it to know for sure, but the first party 360 controllers get wired up exactly like that.

Is this the only button you have connectoed to the controller you're messing with? or is there a huge rats nest of them where something could have gotten overlooked or is shorting on something it shouldn't be? Truthfully, I'd have to put some serious though into making the character duck and kick when I pulled the Trigger, that just shouldn't be happening, at all.

I have done the bumper button mod and swapped the triggers on my wireless controller, but I am very annoyed playing graw and cod2 when I have to hold down the trigger to snipe. What kind of button would I need to make the trigger have a constant on or off effect when it is pressed. That way, I can just click it and it goes into snipe mode and I have that finger free. Then click out of the mode when I'm done. Thanks again.

Ok I reread the post and I kind of understand what you are talking about RDC when modding the triggers to push buttons. Do you know of a tact switch that will fit into the wireless controller? I don't know much about switches and people are talking about mouser.com, but it is huge and I dunno what I'm looking for. I did the trigger swap and that requires bending the middle pin of the trigger up on the side, connecting a wire to it, and routing it to the opposite hole on the board. So when connecting the tact button I will be using a wire from each opposite side trigger post, instead of directly connecting to the board, but that shouldn't matter right? Let me if you have any certain buttons in mind, it would be greatly apreciated.

Yes you can add a push button so the trigger stays "on" when the button is held in or a switch and make the Trigger stay "on" when the switch is flipped, then act normal when it's off. There is most likely a small enough on/off switch as well that you could install so it would "lock" in place when you pressed it in, then "unlock" when you pressed it again.

All you have to do is wire up the new button or switch from the Wiper to Ground of whatever Trigger you want to use.

Yeah Mouser is a pretty big place to go looking for something, I'll nose around in the book and see what I'd use for all of those types of switches and get back to ya.

MOMENTARY PUSH BUTTON (have to hold it down)

http://www.mouser.com/search/productdetail...tualkey68800000


SWITCH (toggle on/off)

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail...tualkey63300000


LATCHING PUSH BUTTON (stays on or off when pressed until pressed again)

This switch will most likely be a pain to find in the size you'll probably need, but it's also the kind you'd most likely want to use. That all depends on where exactly you wanted to mount it in the controller also, since some places offer tons of room compared to other spots. I'll have to do some more looking and see what I can find, let me know where you may want it installed so I'll have a reference for the size it should be.

Cool, thanks for the advice. I am really looking to add a latching push button, but like you said, it would be hard to find one small enough. Um, I don't really know where to install it. Where the black and white buttons were on the old S controller could work. Somewhere on the bottom would also work, as I've seen in the other pictures. If you could find one, that would be great. I could always fit a toggle switch in there if I got rid of a rumbler. I just don't know where I'd put it without it being in the way and it wouldn't look very clean.

The toggle switch I picked out at Mouser will fit in there almost anywhere, that thing is small.

I'm sure there's a latching switch small enough to fit in there somewhere. It's kinda hard to nail one down even with the measurements of the switch, since the insides of the controller aren't nice and square at all. If you pull a Rumble motor out you'd have a ton of room to stick in just about anything, but I wouldn't want to go there unless it was the only option.

There are a few at Mouser that should fit in there one way or another, but without actually getting one and seeing it's kinda hard to tell exactly. What ya want to look for is either a "Latching" switch or a "Push-Push" type of switch abut as small as you can get.

These may work, but don't hold me to it since I don't have any of them to see how I'd go about mounting them.

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail...tualkey68800000

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail...tualkey68800000

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail...tualkey68800000

As far as soldering, what gun do you guys recommed, I was gonna pick up a ColdHeat, but jeremy advised aganist it, and also, would it be possible to put the wire throught the VIA and then solder on the back of the board?

Not soldering gun, Soldering Iron, or Pencil, you could torch a hole right thru the board with a soldering gun, not to mention those things like to burn themselves up over time depending on how they're used.

You wouldn't want to use the Cold Heat on anything in a 360 controller, I wouldn't use it on anything period. If all ya need is a Soldering Iron for this or that pick up a 15w to 30w one at Rat Shack for around $10, that will do ya for most little projects. If you're serious about doing a lot of soldering work you'll want to invest in a good Hakko or Weller Soldering Iron or Station with adjustable heat and might toss up to $100 or so on a decent one.

As for messing with the Via you for sure don't want to go sticking the wire thru it, ya can't anyway without clearing it out, and doing that will most likely result in tearing it all the way out. I don't see why you'd want to soldeer it to the back really, you'd still have to scrape down the same amount of trace around the Via to solder the wire to and you'd just be making more work for yourself and running the veryhigh risk of tearing up that Via then having to reapir it.

That's what I meant. . . lol

All I plan on doing is small little controller mods, and as far as Rat Shack, do you mean Radio Shack?

My grandfather is an eletrician, he thinks it'd be easier to do it that way, just string the wire through and touch it on the back, and it should make contact, then snip the end, as he thinks it'd be pretty hard to solder it right to the front, we also found some wire that actually fits through the via without any clearing (if you hold the board up to a light, you can see right through the Vias.

Thoughts?

Yes Rat Shack is Radio Shack.

If the Vias on your board are clear you're lucky, most aren't.

You still have to scrape down the trace around the Via to have something to solder to, so either side you solder it to you walk the razors edge doing that part of it.

30AWG Wrapping wire (Kynar wire) will go right thru the Vias if they're clear, as will any 30AWG or smaller wire.

Soldering it to the top might be a tad more difficult than soldering it to the back, since the Vias on you're board are clear you can do them either way, just be careful scraping them down. Have a read here (both pages) for some pics I've taken on trace repair, there's a few in there on getting wire attached to the Via that should help ya out some.


If ya tell me what buttons or buttons you're trying to duplicate and if it's a Wired or Wireless controller I can show ya where to solder the wires and avoid most, if not all, of this Via scraping and soldering in the first place. There are several places to attach the wires instead of on those things.

Does anyone know how to do that rapid fire mod?

I'm gonna duplicate the X, Y, A, and B buttons.

And as far as where to solder to. . .

This is A :


This is B, Y and X :
Running a single wire from the common ground that splits to connect to the 3 buttons, and then running 3 wires back.

All in total, 6 solder points on the Vias. 2 for A, and 1 for the B,Y,X-common ground, and 3 more for the B, Y, and X buttons themselves.

My only question is how much around the Vias do I need to scrape. I mean size wise, I know that you have to scrape until you see the metal, but how big of a point will I need?
Correct?

*EDIT* Oh, by the way RDC, excellent posts about how to repair those traces, and beautiful pictures.

nice tut

Thanks.

The tutorial shows how to scrape down a Via properly.

The Diodes in your diagram aren't necessary, or are those supposed to be just arrows?

I wouldn't go soldering onto those points. You'll have the wire on the top of the board and putting it back together will be sort of a pain.

You can hit all of those spots on the back of the board and only have to deal with 2 Vias. Be careful when soldering the wires on to the SMD Diodes, you shouldn't have any real problem hitting them with the iron and some 30AWG wire if you're careful.

X = Blue (solder wire to bottom leg of D8)

Y = Yellow Via (at the bottom)

A = Green (solder wire to top left leg of D10) and Dark Red Via (in the middle)

B = Red (solder wire to top right leg of D10)

X,Y,B Common = Orange (use the solder joint at the bottom for 1 wire split to 3, or all 3 of them)





The Trigger may or may not get in your way some, it's removed from this picture as is the Thumb Stick. I'd remove the Trigger just to be safe and to give ya all the room you'll need to do the soldering. It's held in by 3 solder joints for the POT (other side of the board) and then it just clips off of the board.

Yes, they were just supposed to be arrows.


I'm guessing that you had that picture from something else, due to traces that you had colored but didn't mention. So, I'd solder to here:

And as far as removing the trigger, I'm guessing that unclipping it just wont' work, and that these are the solder points you were talking about:

Ya shoulda looked around in the Tutorials section, I have all of the Buttons on the Wired and Wireless traced out. I didn't mention the other traces because ya didn't have to to mess with them at all, but did anyway I see.

You have X wrong, that's the White/Blue spot, the Blue one is on the other side.

For the Common, move over to the left a little bit and use that solder joint that's there, so you don't have to scrape down another Via.

Everything else is good to go, and yes the Trigger must be desoldered before it can be removed.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/8584/pb142427xc2.jpg


RDC thank you, now i can play GOW

im sorry im sort of new to this but i understand the connection points and all but how do u actually make another button and make it pressable. thanks

You don't make the button, you buy that and drill the hole for it in the controller, then install it and wire it up.

Hey guys, GREAT tutorial here, good information.

Here's what I want to do: I have a wireless controller and I would like to duplicate the toggle botons in the joysticks. I don't want to disable them, I want to add extra buttons, in a better place that will perform the toggle functions. I'm thinking of using C buttons from N64 controllers. I've read through the posts but I'm still unsure of where to solder to, and how to prepare the spot for soldering. I would realy appretiate it if someone could post a more detailed description on this particular mod. Thanks

precise

I'm also working on a green LED mod for the same wireless controller under a see-thru smoke-green case I purchased through decalgirl.com.

Have a look here to start off. The Wired and Wireless controller's buttons are all traced out and color coded with a diagram so ya can see what does what and what you'd need to connect to "mimic" any of the buttons on the controller. You can attach the wires anywhere on the line, provided you know what you're doing, but the are usually already a good place or two to attach the wire without having to get into any trace cutting or having to remove the masking so the solder will stick.

To mimic the RTh (Right Thumbstick button) you'd solder your wires from the new button to the Orange trace and the Violet/White trace. The best place to attach them is right at the connections where the button is, (bottom of the board) since there's already a solder joint there for each one.

For the LTh you do the same thing, but with Pink/White and then the White/Red traces. You have a couple of options for attaching the wires. Getting to the Pinnk/White one is easy, but the White/Red one is under the Trigger, you can remove the Left Trigger so you can get to the solder joint easily, or just attach the wire to another spot that's in the open. If you look on the picture you'll see that right uder the IC is a spot that is connected to the White/Red trace and is right in the open, TP6. Just solder the wire to that spot instead of having to pull the Trigger out.

does anyone know how to actually do the rapid fire button?

That tutorial is all over the forums and is the same as the one for the S-controller. The only difference is if you plan on doing that mod to a Wireless controller you have to use the CMOS version of the 555 Timer IC, since it runs off a lower voltage, the Wireless only has 3v max. to work with.

Thanks for the info RDC. I'm still unsure of where exactly to solder to though, do I solder at the circles or somewere in the lines? Also do I need to scrape these circles down before I solder or not ? It would realy be helpful if you could post like a step by step tutorial with pictures at each step including the scraping and exact solder points for the toggle buttons in the pictures. Sorry if this is a pain in the butt, I just don't want to skrew up my wireless and have to buy a new one at $60. Thanks a lot for your time and effort, it is greatly appretiated.

Precise

The "circle spots" in this case are already solder joints except TP6, and it only has to have a little solder added to it so you can attach the wire there. You don't have to scrape anything for this.

These are the spots to attach the wires for the RIGHT Thumb Stick's button



These are the spots to attach the wires for the LEFT Thumb Stick's button

Thanks a lot RDC, I really appretiate you taking your time to make this more clear for me. Thanks to all you guys who decided to delve into the controller and post these tutorials.

Precise

You're welcome.

Thanks RDC for all your posts and help to everyone. I added A,B,X, and Y buttons to the bottom of a wired controller, and it seemed to work great until I plugged in the headset. Then the A and X buttons stopped working (until I unplug the headset). So I think perhaps I am misunderstanding where to solder the common wire for A and X. In one of your posts you mentioned to solder to the "joint on the dark red wire" and the one I soldered to is a joint on the trace to the right of TP38 on your diagram, almost directly below C40. If that is not the problem, do you have any ideas of what else I may have done wrong?

Thanks again!

That's a pretty odd problem ya have there. I'd almost like to have that to see exactly why it's acting that way.

This is the spot that I'd use for the A and X common connection.



IF that's the one you're using I'd try taking the controller apart, then see if plugging the headset in/out makes a difference. You may have a pinched wire in there that's giving you that funky problem you're having. There isn't much room to go stuffing all kinds of wires and such in these controllers, so making sure everything is routed out of harms way is a pretty vital step. Let me know how that goes for ya, and if that doesn't cut it we'll see what else we can figure out.

First off, thank you to all that have contributed to the extra button tutorials. I have a bit of a problem though, and would really appreciate any help offered.

I've added A,B,X, and Y buttons on the bottom of the controller. B,X, and Y work fine; however, A doesn't.

Testing the circuit with a multimeter shows behavior as expected, infinite resistance until either the original button or the new button is pushed - then the resistance goes to approx. zero.

When connected to the Xbox though, A simply doesn't work. Neither the original or the new button do anything when pressed.

Any ideas?

If you're getting a reading of 0ohms when you're pushing the controllers button the there's a problem there, it shouldn't drop any lower than 24ohms or so. The new button you have installed will give a reading of 0ohms when pressed though.

What's most likely happened is you've got yourself a cracked trace or messed up a Via somehow in the process, those are about the ony things that would keep A from working. Where did you attach your wires for the duplicate A button at?

Ack I thought this would email responses, glad I checked finally.

I should mention that this is on a wired controller. I apologize in advance for my amateurish soldering.

I tested all the other buttons and they all behaved the same way; when pressing the new buttons it goes to 0ohms, when pressing the original pads they all go to around 55ohms. The controller is not assembled at this point and I'm using the rubber pad to press it, so the higher resistance makes sense since I'm not pushing it as hard as I could with the plastic button.

Anyone that's soldered anything to anything else has something in their past that looks like that, and I'm sure there are some that probably can't do that good, but I would suggest a little more practice before having at another controller though.

You couldn't get it to drop to 0ohms even if it was all together and ya stood on the original controller's button, that black coating you see there has some resistance to it, as does the pad that makes the connection.

It looks to me like you've pretty much blown that Via there above the A button. Because of where you have the A buttons alternate wires soldered I can see why neither would work in this case. You'l need to fix that up before anything, and I just about guarantee that's the problem right there too. Have a read HERE for trace repair, there's a section about fixing a torn up Via in there too.

You should switch up to a lot smaller wire too. I use 30AWG Wrapping Wire (also called Kynar Wire), you can pick it up at Rat Shack and a few places online as well.

Okay, repair the Via: where should I pull off the board to connect that to? That pad area there is very short, and yes, it looks like I lost that pad. I tried to fix it by connecting a little further down on the trace to the button section itself, but where do I pull what the Via was connected to - on the other side?

- Edit: I'm guessing D5 from this post?. I wish I had searched more before starting the mod. I was following a tutorial, but it had me scraping the masking off the vias. It would have been much easier to pull the points off of your other locations.

You don't pull from the board anywhere to fix the Via, the Trace Repair Tutorial has a perfect example of what ya need to do, it's on page 2. You need to clean out the Via, scrape down the other side of it, run the wire thru it, solder it to the back side (were the Via is still good) then solder it to what's left of that trace that goes to the A buttons contact.

If you attach your duplicate buttons wire to the D5 there you're duplicate button will work, but the A button will still be dead, you need to repair the Via for that to get going again. I'd personally use the TP42 spot to attach the wire to, but either will work and you wont have to mess with the Trigger if you attach it to D5. You need to remove the Trigger anyway to get to all these spots, desolder the 3 joints that hold the POT in, then it just unclips from the board. Just BE CAREFUL. The Via repair you're attempting, soldering onto a SMT part and desoldering something correctly are leaps ahead of what you've been doing on that thing and may be capable of. Not trying to sound like a jerk, just tryin to keep ya from getting in any deeper than ya already are.

That's okay, I've obviously screwed this up enough. I have done soldering in the past, and a very small amount of board level work - cap replacement throughout arcade monitors, modded the original xbox, etc; it's just this particular one that is being a real pain.

As for this, a controller without an A button isn't much of one at all. Hopefully this will fix things up.

Everything works now. Thanks RDC!

You're welcome.

Hey, is the solder point for the right trigger the middle of the 3 solders next to the trigger housing? if so then to hook that up to an added button would i just connect that to one side of the extra button then connect the two sides of the extra button together?

The points and correct way to add an extra button for the Triggers, as well as all of the buttons, are in the Tutorials section, Wired or Wireless Controller Button Solder Points.

Ok I really need help, I wanna add 4 buttons. One for x,b,y and a. I am decent at soldering but how do you solder in the little holes? Does the solder just stick to them or do you need to scrape them? Thanks. I need an answer fast!

Look in the tutorials section for the "Wireless Controller Button Solder Points". I have pics of all the better places to attach the wires for your new buttons, you don't have to mess with any Vias or masking removal at all for any of the buttons except Guide in those diagrams.

Does anyone have a pic of one of the buttons that jeremy used next to a dime or something? I really need the demensions but a pic next to a dime would be 10x better. I need it as soon as possible. Thanks in advance!

They're 6mm x 6mm x 7mm. This one has the ground lead on it (the one on top) and it's not used or can just be clipped off, but aside from that is identical to what the 6x6x7mm tact swich is. The base is roughly 6mm x 6mm x 4mm not counting the length of the leads.

Gotta love macro! Thank you so much man. I am gonna order a switch for a crouch mod and i will start it when that gets here. Thanks to you to jeremy for all the work. Thanks again!!!