feel free to vote/discuss.

freedom of speech basically.

no one is forced to buy this game. u dont have to play it. you dont have to watch.

if this was teh case, pornography should be banned from stores also

retailers should have been enforcing the age limits on buying games in the first place. irresponsible parents should not be controlling what we can buy.

There shouldn't be a ban on these types of games, have the parents enforce what their kids play/own, and have the stores enforce an age limit on these types of games.

To be honest, I don't see why GTA is getting all of the publicity, when The Guy Game, featured a 17 year old girl who lied to get on the show, then bared it all in the game. (Basically kiddie porn, because it wasnt with a parent's concent).

So why should stores be not allowed to sell GTA type games, and still sell the soft-porn games?

I Think, it shouldnt be baned bc yea, its freedom to buy what you want. Simply put, if you dont like it then dont buy it

I agree totally with is this name taken too? If parents are so concerned, why do they buy it for their kids? If they cared so much, why didn't they read the little letter that represents 17+? It's also not right to get on Rockstar's case as much as any other game maker's case, because a very good amount of them make M rated games (heck, its hard to find E rated games anywhere nowadays), and they have a lot of what GTA has. But the hot coffee scandal was completely bogus. The game had drugs, violence, and sexual innuendos before the scandal, and now parents are concerned?

Freedom of Speech basically. If Rockstar has the ability to press a disc that will play on the Xbox with the content they want, so be it. If anyone is to blame, it's game retailers, but that only goes so far.

As long as the person selling it enforces the age limit, and makes sure that the person buying really is old enough to play it, i don't see any reason why they should be banned. But of course you do get little 5 year olds playing it, and thats just wrong.

It should not be banned. If the game bothers you, just simply DON'T BUY IT.

I think idiots who like to do what they see in videogames should be banned from retail, along with irresponsible parents that don't see the big "M for Mature" sticker on GTA games.

I like the game but some of the shit just goes to far. Being able to kill cops? Try this for just as a test. Play need for speed underground 1 or 2, or any other similar real life racing game. Play for a couple hours if you can. Now go get behind the wheel of a car and drive on the highway. Tell me if you notice any difference in your behavior. Chances are your driving was effected by the game and you did drive more dangerously than you usually would. Anyway thi s is just my example but think what this game does to people that play it consistently. The game really does have an affect on people's behavior. I don't think the game should be banned and I totally agree with enforcing the age limit. Some companies just take things too far.

Parents, and retailers are responsible, not the game developers.

great argument. it's up to the parents.

If you're banning it because of the violence, then ban the nightly news as well. I mean shit, there are so many violent crimes reported every night, how is a kid supposed to know the difference? And like everyone else has said, no one is making you buy video games and blame the retailers for not enforcing the laws.

the problems arent the content its the parents, ive seen plenty of violence since i was little and my parents taught me the difference between fantacy and reality. now parents get kids the game cause they weant and and treat the tv/computer/games as baby sitters. the games shouldnt be banned the parents should start parenting and pay attention to the stuff they buy there kids

I wish game manufacturers, concerned right wing nutjobs, politicians (see previous category), game consumers, AND most importantly legal guardians/parents would realize that a game is a form of entertainment, expression, art, and free speech. Legal guardians need to do their g*d damned job and take an interest in what their kids of doing/playing. (Notice I didn't just say parents.) Working 60 hours a week is no excuse for not paying attention to your kid for a few hours a week. If your kid has their head on straight, and you have taught them right from wrong and your kid is mature enough to control themselves, then let them play if you don't mind. The converse is true too. If you can't trust your kid, then you need to start teaching them so that you can trust them.

Bottom Line: Retailers should pay severe fines for selling to under age people. I don't care if your mommy or daddy said you could play the game. Parents can order it online if they can't make it to the store (and save some money to boot). Legal guardians should "parent" their kids. There is no substitute for a concerned parental unit. The government and everyone else should step off my #ick and not try to tell me what I can and can't play by trying to stop the sale of a stupid game.

This is similiar to what other people are saying. Just my little spin on it.

maybe parents need to learn what the big M stands for on the game cover, and no it's not munchkins, or Minature persons.
Maybe they should just have all M rated games contain a generic large "M" on thier cover, covering the crucial parts of an explict photo or a grusome picture, so that parents will stop buying this stuff for their 3 year old.

Banning isn't the way to evolution.

Restricting forces will always create frustration and misunderstanding. You can't get a society to get to higher levels by banning. History is loaded of example of how banning things turned up to ( sex, alchool, ...) we should learn from our mistakes and lean forward to another solution...

Everone's liberty ends up where the other's start.

Get your own rules in your home. If the game developper pull up with some games that you don't like, just don't play them, but do not try to block a mature adult enjoying video games that can finally play one without a big monkey or a small boy with a large mustache. I don't think he's gonna get out and shoot the first cop he sees for that matters.

Freedom of speech: yes

Freddom of choice: double yes

Sadly GTA3 and VC were one of the best, few, original and most next-gen titles of last-gen. Ban those and you ban a third of what gaming is at its best.

GTA type games can only get better with the X360 and PS3 but only in the hands of these talented developers like Rockstar who know what makes the games great, and its not just the sensless violence.

As opposed to... irresponsible Congress that knows nothing about what's good for the country? Remember, these idiots were ELECTED by those irresponsible parents en masse, and as a result there are very few who aren't completely incompetent (despite some flashes os semi-intelligence). Let people who know their kids decide what to do -- it's the parents' jobs to parent and raise their children, NOT Congress's, and Congress needs to remember that what may be good for their children isn't necessarily good for everyone's.

If nothing else, every time the government makes a choice for us, we lose a little bit of that American freedom we cherish so dearly. In principle, we should be much more careful about where and why we trade some of that freedom for stability and the good of the whole.

censorship sucks

it should be up to the parents to pay attn to what their kids are playing

Should we ban R-rated movies? Should we get rid of the internet? Hell no, it is a freedom of speech. Yes it should be illegal for minors to buy the game but not only minors play video games. What needs to happen is that Media needs to stop addressing video games to be only for kids and think of it as a source of entertainment like movies. Just like they try to label cartoons are only for kids, this is not true. Look at the sales for Family Guy on DVD. Do you think that is from kids buying the DVD?

I think there should be a fine if a game is sold to a minor and should not be. This will help retail stores from selling it to kids. This should also be enforced with secret shoppers to see if they would sale to a kid.

If we ban video games because of content then we should ban TV, Movies, Music and all other source of entertainment all together.

Nothing like blamming others to make one self feel better.

Yup banning something because it "causes" people to do bad things is just like sueing a bartender because you drove home drunk and crashed.

It is soooo much easier to blame others than to take credit for being ignorant.



Would I mind if the stores stopped selling to under 18year olds.. NO that is the stores right and is a good way to help parents.
A store also has the right to refuse to carry anything it wants because it may not go with their style or whatever the reason it is their right. BUT TO MAKE A BAN ON ALL RETAIL CHAINS (that seems to be higher than just the stores making the decision.. it sounds like it would be LAW and that is wrong)

my 2 cents.

It will never be banned and kinda silly to even bother becuase they would have to ban all the movies in the theater's ban all video store rental movies ban all other violent game's from all store's ban all violent arcade game's ban all porn etc. it will never happen the entertainment industry would crash and it is one of the thing's that keeps america's fund's well so no it will never happen and if it does it will not last long at all becuase there is to many comparible's to point a finger at one lol

You must be kidding me. GTA3 and VC couldn't hold a candle to San Andreas. That game is top notch. From the things you can do to the atmosphere of the game. They created a masterpiece just like with GTA3 and VC. But to say that they are better than SA is crazy. I guess you didn't like the gangsta gangsta theme too much

Back to the topic:

They say Rated M for Mature for a reason. I thought it was stupid to change the rating from 17+ to 18 and over. I mean come on....I knew everything I knew at 18 and 17. Hell, I knew that same stuff at 16....lol

Freaking politicians are the ones who need to be ban, Who in the hell think they are when they telling us wat not to watch or play.
Remember they're the ones that take big $$$ money from hollywood and other big companys.
Long Live GTA, anyone want a cup of "coffee"?

The average age of gamers today is 28.

In Illinois, it is illegal for retailers to sell M-rated products to anyone under the age of 17 without parental consent. Retailers are required to ask for ID from anyone who looks younger than 50.

I work in retail, and I see tons of kids come through my store every day. Many of them without parents. Anyone who looks younger than 16 who comes in we ask them to come back with their parents. Many parents go to malls with their kids and use stores as a form of babysitting. I understand the reasoning - for example a mother wants to look at clothes, or a father's buying a present for his kids and doesn't want them to see, etc., etc... but I still think that there are a lot of parents out there who are not responsible. Many of them don't care if their kids play mature games, because "there's worse stuff on the news every night".

Gun, which is a horrible game on any system, is incredibly popular with children. I often have to describe to parents who come in asking for the game just what it contains. Some still buy it for their child because so-and-so's parents let him play it. So they think it's ok because his friend does it. Classic "Jump off a bridge" arguement.

I swear, people should be required to get licenced in order to parent. At least an IQ test.

would love to hear from the 26 peaple that voted Yes

why?

The guy has an opionion you know. Just becuase you say SA is better doesnt make it so.


Back to SA though
personally i could care less about the gangsta theme that actually pulled me out of the game. No offense but the whole story was pretty stupid. The game was pretty linear aswell ala I didnt want todo anything related to gangsta and stuff but your forced todo them if you want to get anywhere. I think SA was pretty much more of the same. There wherent any major plot changes and the games characters where horrible. Once again though this is an opionion which everyone is entitled to.

Back on Topic though

It is the parents fault but there are some other factors involved. Although parents should know what there children are doing many are usally working by todays standards thus making it hard to really know whats happening in there lives. The new law where only 18 year olds can buy M games is crap. This isnt going to help in anyway the problem is parents. Unfortanetly theres no real way to change that. There are some parents who really know whast going on and actually oppose that law. Being 15 My Idea on it may be a tad biased though since im angry i cant get the games (Considering most games are M anyways).

This also is kinda like the harry potter book thing people would burn the books and write angry letters. When all they really need todo is not buy the book. Sometimes for things like this theres a stupidly simple answer which parents tend to ignore. If you dont like the product dont buy it.

To sum it up for the lazy "If you dont like the product dont buy it"

Good point. Maybe some parents are giving others a bad name in not knowing how to read labels. How about a big letter R dripping in blood on the cover to show that the game is restricted. Maybe M is too confusing for them. If the dripping letter R doesn't get their attention, maybe a small capacitor built into the case that gives the people that pick it up a significant electric shock to WAKE THEM UP enough to pay attention to what they are doing. (Heheh maybe it'll wake up the clerk to check for ID while they are at it.)

That is definately one way of looking at it. I disagree though. Perhaps making parents more responsible for the actions of their "little darlings" might force them to make dealing with their kids a priority. Working hard is hardly an excuse for why their kid turned into a *ickf4ce. Your kid doesn't know right from wrong, goes out and severely harms someone or kills them legal guardian doesn't pass go, doesn't collect $200, and goes straight to prison for a couple years. You ask what happens to the kid? Good question. Give them two choices. 1> Work their ass off helping the community, probation, and tons of supervised community service (and after so many hours of community service they reduce their parents' sentance) or 2> they can go to prison where someone else will work their ass off. Their choice.

I like tollerating lots of things: People's unique differences, races, religions, free speech... and much more. I am very intollerant of kids that haven't been taught the rough life lessons my parents whupped into me. Ya I was spanked when I screwed up. I learned there were consequences to life. "parents are too busy" does not excuse them from making their kids education (life lessons) a major priority.

Just like we shouldn't tollerate our rights being taken away from us, I don't think we should tollerate parents making excuses for why they couldn't do their job. Is their child growing up to be a strong individual that knows right and wrong less important than anything else in life? I dare say it is the most important thing a parent can do for their kid. Work pays the bills. Money does you know good if your little darling is in jail or prison. (well I guess you could send them a pack of cigarettes)

not banned, but, restricted just as they're doing now

I disagree with some of that. For one, what difference does it make if you can kill cops or not? It's the exact same just they have a gun now. I know your argument will be. Yes they are here to help but what people fail to realize, it's just a game, it does'nt manipulate kids into doing something. It's just a stupid way of parents not admitting that they screwed up. Take the kid that had a shootout at the school not too long ago. His parents were abusive. And as for your play need for speed theory... Total and utter bullcrap. The only way it would affect your driving is if its fresh on your mind, and your oppinion on if the test (if it would work or not) would affect your driving. Basically i mean if you think that the theory is true, then of course your mind, even though you think your not, is going to tell you to go a little faster or vice versa.

Ok My Friend was typeing that one and had to go play Halo 2, so i going to finish what he was saying.

Its total bull shit what you are trying to say. I play GTA all the time and I have cops who are my friends. I not going to go out there and start kill people at random. You know why? Because my parents taught me better than that. Its not the kids fault it is the Parents. The Parents fault for never teaching their kid right and wrong.

I hope who ever voted yes gets there balls cut off.




So from what your saying if i were to go play a deer hunting game right now. I would get better at hunting? Your full of it. You don't have a clue what your talking about go away!

its not the developers fault its not the retailers fault. its the parents fault The developers should be able to make a game w/ any content they want. retailers should be held to the same standards as if the were selling an R rated movie. Parents need to either pay attention to what they buy for their kids (i don't know a single 10 yr old w/ 50 bucks to get GTA San Andreas, without their parents giving it to them) or parents need to stop bitching about their own stupidity.

I see your point, and agree that the game should certainly be restricted in such a way that minors cannot easily get their hands on it, just as they cannot easily see an NC-17 movie.

That said, and I think you probably will agree with what I say next, I think there should be as few restriction as possible on what content is allowed by law in games sold to adults. (Just a tangent on that: Quite a few of the Japanese dating sims sold here would be illegal to sell and possibly possess in the US.)

Companies make games. Games get a rating. A parent (or anyone else for that matter) cannot buy a game with an 18+ rating (example: Manhunt) and then complain that it's a bad influence, should be banned, etc. Games are for our entertainment, and if parents think they're bad influences, why do they continue to buy them? Just to complain about them? My parents don't like GTA: San Andreas, but i'm old enough to play it with it's current rating. Most gamers (based on my friends) are ages 16 - 23, so if games like GTA are banned, why should my 18+ aged friends miss out? My conclusion: Parents, quit complaining. It's the consumers responsability. You either buy games or you don't. I personally think it's quite amusing, but that's just me hehe. None of the violence or swearing rubs off on me. Also, Halo has an MA15+ rating. I've heard alot of kids (under 15) talk about how cool it is to kill the aliens and how far they've got. That said, we must ban halo because minors are playing it , not that it's even that violent anyway (no flaming of Halo intended) . I just think parents need to mellow out, that's all. Thanks for reading my huge post haha.

EDIT: With the hype over the recent mini-game in San Andreas, the only way to acutally get it is to change the game's HEX code (from what i've heard) so technically not alot of minors are going to be cracking SA and playing the hidden game anyway.

I had to vote yes as far as banning the game for minors goes.

I know I dont want my 6 or even 12 year old playing this kind of stuff with all the violence and sexual

content.

I think the game is a very good idea and very entertaining but for a much more mature group of people.

I feel kids are way to impressionable and may pull a columbine or simular with the idea of blaming there

dasteredly deeds on these type of games and then the rest of us would have to suffer due to some inmature

little punks with there daddies gun that they found in the closet.

The game companies and retail stores really need inforce the age limmit laws or this stuff will happen and I

for one dont want to get stuck playing fluffy the kitty fluff fluff due to a total ban all because these age rating

laws arent being followed.

Its happened in the past and its going to happen again.

By the way I just happen to own all 3 for xbox.

In the UK we have ELSPA and the BBFC. Elspa set "Recommendations" with regards to the age but as far as I am aware this doesn't have to be enforced. However where we differ from you guys over in the US and other places is that because the games are on DVD / CD they can also pass under the scrutiny of the British Board of Film Classification.

So while GTA SA for instance is rated as M for Mature in say the US, in the UK it's rated M for Mature and given an 18 Certificate meaning that it would be against the law to sell to someone under the age limit.

Vigilant retailers, Good parenting and some forethought on behalf of games designer is all that is need to help this process along.

However times are changing and my 10 year old nephew happily plays on GTA SA. He sees the things depicted in the game on news and in films (shown on TV) and understands what is right and is wrong.

No they shouldnt ban these games if u dont like it dont buy it, simple as that

The game content is not the issue, it's people buying these games for people younger than the intended audience. Until parents learn to say no once in a while instead of buying their little darlings whatever they want, there are going to be complaints about what goes into a game.

Do you think movies like texas chainsaw massacre and fasttimes at ridgemont high should be banned from retail?

i played all the gta games from start to finish..
i never once went out and killed a cop or even thought about it.
the rest of the world cant be held accountable for what one idiot does.
that's the same as saying nobody can have mc donalds because some people got to fat eating it.

what really gets me is that it seems like violence, drug abuse and other CRIMINAL things are more acceptable than sexual content, ESPECIALLY between consenting adults. look at the controversey over the janet jackson superbowl thing, yet you can turn on court tv or FX or even Fox any time of the day and watch "Cops", a show where you can see people getting beaten in REAL LIFE. if you ban these games, i never want to hear or see rap songs/videos that PROMOTE being a "gangsta" and the degradation of women. the old saying goes, shit or get off the pot. if one thing deemed offensive is banned, it all should be. this is NOT what America is about. those of us intelligent enough to know right from wrong and to raise our children to respect the law and be responsible people SHOULD NOT have to sacrifice our rights for stupid people and irresponsible parents.

Well, in my opinion, banning mature rated games would be wrong. There's no question about this. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that a game called Grand Theft Auto might have something to do with breaking the law. When my kid wants to buy a game that is titled with a felony, I think I might investigate it just a bit before I buy it. I mean if the game was called "Knife Dem Hoes Takin Ma Crack Head Clients," would they still buy it without question? The problem isn't with games, the problem isn't with movies, or even music (which actually hasn't been under the gun for a while - knock on wood). The problem is with the American psyche and also with the fundamental flaws of a democracy (I am American, I am a registered Republican, I love my country).

A large group of Americans today think on three basic principles, what is the government going to do for me, how much does it cost, and how little work must I accomplish to get what I want. This is not true of all, but it is of most. As shameful as it is I slip into these categories from time to time. Government is not there to do for YOU! Dammnit, I wish I could beat this into some people. Its there to do whats right for the good of the nation. When some ignorant mother sees fame, a quick check from a large publisher, and the empathy of a nation she goes straight to the governement to get what they owe her. She wants action, her child's mind has been violated, she thought games were for kids and this game was horrible. how was she supposed to know that Grand Theft Auto was a game that featured criminals breaking the law? Games should all be safe for kids, busy parents can't be expected to figure out which games are safe and which ones aren't. That's how it all starts. She's too lazy to monitor her children and expects the government to do it for her. She is enchanted by the fame and pity she gets through the media. Her wallet begins to swell with settlements from publishers trying to dodge the bullet.

In a democracy no press is bad press. If someone in a political office, a political campaign, or even just a lawyer can make the news, good or bad in most cases, it is a success. If a politician or lawyer sees a way to make headlines and get there name out, they will jump on it. Do these people dislike these games? Probably. Do they really care enough about what legitimate adults do in there free time as long as it doesn't affect others? Probably not. But will talks of banning games outrage a minority but entrance a majority on the news? Most definately.

But is banning games legal? Well in the most strict view of the constitution it is illegal to ban them on a federal level, but its illegal to ban marijuanna and other illicit substances on a federal level as well but we see how that went. On the state and county levels however its up to the individual legislatures. Hopefully there are enough adults gamers or not that are smart enough to make intelligent decisions about who they vote for, but that is just about all we can do short of forming a militia and marching against the senate while stealing cars, raping hookers, shooting cops, and buying weapons with our drug money....gasp I've been changed! Damn that GTA! lol

So to recap, any form entertainment should be available to adults. Available. Not forced, but just available. It is legal for a state or county to ban games, but quite unethical, and it is up to the citizens to make sure it doesn't happen. Stopping asking the government to make special decisions to help YOU out. Help yourslef and follow the rules so we can get the hell out of this pit of socialism we've fallen into. Don't just boo politicians that take up stupid crusades that you don't like, boo all politicians that take up stupid crusades!

Thats the end of my rant, but one more thing whoever talked about a freedom of choice....IT DOESNT EXIST! NO WHERE IN THE ENTIRE CONSTITUION WILL ANYONE FIND THE RIGHT TO A FREEDOM OF CHOICE! DO NOT QUOTE THINGS THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! THIS IS HOW IGNORANCE GETS SPREAD - I HATE IGNORANCE!

ban it? no way!
i am all for enforcing the sales of the game though, and fining the stores for selling it to minors. Just like it's done with cigaretes and pornagrophy.

I think it would be bad. First, if GTA is banned for whatever reason, what follows? The pornography industry, with it's multi-billion dollar lawyers, would try to get banned. Same thing. Not meant for kids. Well, I'm sure some kids have gotten a hold of a copy of Donna does Detroit... Fuck, there goes that industry.

Movies. Rated R? Well, my son just watched a rated R movie. Fuck! That's banned, too. Music? Eminem? Shit! No more RIAA (ok, some good comes from all that fallout! )... You get my point. When does it stop!?

Watch the movie Equalibrium. The government tells us what we can and cannot read, watch, view, listen to. A little over dramatic, and conspiracy theory. But, it's all the same.

Its not like any of these games don't depict stuff that happen every day across the nation. Sure we don't like people playing GTA because its violent and teaches kids bad values, but what do you tell the people in inner city america that play the game for real every day just to survive?

I didn't read the whole thread but I thought I'd add my 2c anyway.
I am fundamentally against the banning of anything. One by one our rights are being stripped away. if they ban GTA what's next? Pretty soon you won't be able to loan a book to someone without some Jackoff wanting royalties.
What needs to be done is restricting the sale to minors, just like cigarettes. And parents using the parental controls when available and monitoring what their little brat kids do.

Because like it or not video games with violence and immorality have a negative effect on children. They do not have the ability do distinguish between reality and fantasy. Also the violence desensitizes them and after a while they begin to think violence is normal and oK.

So NO to banning YES to parental controls.

I would also be for the Neutering/Spaying of certain adults who lack the ability to be a responsible parent.

Danny

its all bad parenting, if you dont want your kids not to play it take it away from it dont ruin it for everyone its dumb their are thouse ratings on there for a reason thier not there for looks duh!

My kids don't even get to WATCH when I play GTA, Ghost Recon, or anything like that. They play games made for their age.

Thank god for emulation! My 4 year old love Thomas the Tank. So, instead of hooking up the Sega and running it from that (I have the original cart), I put it on the XBox. He loves it. He's a smart little guy, too. He can navigate the XBMC to get to the emulator and find Thomas on there. He can find the other emulators and whatever game he wants. He can find the video's through the directory structure (memorization, but still!). Smart 4 year old! My 6 year old... He loves to read. He's really not into the whole computer/video game thing...

It's all about the parenting. I feel I do a good job (hate to use the word) shielding them from the harshness of the realworld. At least until they get older. If he asks questions, I tell them to his age level. I let him play games relative to his age level. I watch movies PG and up first if he wants to watch them.

Parenting. Not banning. Well, I guess it worked for Hitler!