QUOTE(Wedding-shirt @ Jan 11 2006, 11:09 AM)
He actually said the systems are NOT using subsurface scattering. Also, he states that one of his hobbies is no holds barred fighting.
I'm curious because you seem to know your stuff, what do you think about the PS3 and 360 from a hardware perspective? Which one is better, what can we expect? How do they compare to say an X2 4800, 7800 GTX 512 high end PC?
Please write a lot in your response. I love to read techincal stuff.
You're right he did say that they weren't using subsurface scattering, but he did say they were using HDR lighting and it seemed implied that these were things we should be expecting, which is completely false. Didn't know he was a crazy fighting man though... perhaps I'll throw something at him from a distance.
I'm really not the right guy to comment on the hardware perspectives of the 360 and PS3 though. My knowledge of 3D design is on the software end of the spectrum. I'm fairly good at modeling, texturing, rigging and animating but my area of expertise is lighting. Because the newer lighting techniques (HDRI based, subsurface, global illumination) are so taxing when it comes to computing power I've learned alot about the limitations of hardware, but not the technical aspects of how it operates. With that being said, I think that all the hardware in the world is a waste without the proper software. The 360 and the ps3 seem to be fairly evenly matched on the hardware level, but noone can say for sure since we don't really know how to compare a three core powerpc to the cell and vice versa. It is my prediciton that the software will win this battle. Development tools like XNA and game engines will determine the outcome this time around.
QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Jan 11 2006, 02:41 PM)
HDRR - High Dynamic Range Rendering (3D image rendering)
HDRI - High Dynamic Range Imaging (digital imaging)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering
This clearly states that we do have hardware that supports HDR in real-time, but there is only one reason why we don't really see it, the monitors.http://download.nvidia.com/developer/prese...Leagues_HDR.pdf
It is a good idea to point out the differences in terminology here, so we don't confuse everyone. However, neither of those terms are what we're talking about. The so-called "PS3 developer" clearly said HDR lighting, which is different that rendering and imaging. Those basically deal with the ability of textures to react to specific types of light, and the ability of the software/hardware to render an image with a full dynamic range from absolute black to absolute white. This can emulate the way human eyes react to light by washing out bright sources of light like windows and deepening the shading of darkened areas when a bright light is visible. This is old technology and has been capable in real time since the days of the dreamcast and 3dfx voodoo cards, since it is basically a form of selective contrasting. HDR lighting
is based on the same principle of the high dynamic range, but to achieve this realistically through lighting it has to be handled on a particle by particle basis. Light particles are emitted with a specific intensity associated with it and a specified die-off range, but based on the shaders and surfaces the particle is bounced off of can determine how it's intesity, color and range will change and react. Furthermore, image based HDRI lighting maps a 360 degree images to a sphere and uses each individual pixel as a reference for color and intensity. The image itself emits the light particles and is the most accurate way to realistically light a scene, especially when using a corresponding image.
Here is a good tutorial that explains HDR lighitng: http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/contrib/tut..._tut/_contents/
QUOTE(blackchild1101 @ Jan 11 2006, 02:57 PM)
Well said lowendfrequency...Can you recommend any books on the matter?
I personally found "Matters of Light & Depth"
by Ross Lowell to be an excellent book on lighting, although much of it deals with the basic principles of lighting and very little is about HDR lighting. I've heard of this book
, but haven't had the chance to look it over yet. I know there is also a book out there called "Real-time Rendering" that details all the ways to achieve (fake) HDR lighting and other high-cost effects in realtime, but unfortunatly I haven't read that one either.
I apologize to everyone for letting this conversation get so off topic. The point of my original post was that I thought the "PS3 dev" was talking out his ass... and I still think that. He isn't developing aa PS3 game or demo, he's only tracking a camera for a pre-rendered CG video. The team was most likely given pre-requisites like to use X amount of surfaces, Y amount of lights, and Z amount of shadows to emulate what the PS3 should be able to do. That's a crappy method IMO and it's lying to the public.