I had read somewhere, that the ps3 is projected to almost double the sales of the xbox 360 within 1 year after its release. Can anyone find anything related to this or point me in the direction? I believe that the ps3 will surpass the 360 but not double its sales. What do you all think?
Full Version: Xbox Losing?
I think the story you are thinking of is this and I think its a very large guess MEANT to hurt 360.
QUOTE(gadgetHacks_er @ Jan 20 2006, 10:16 AM) 
I had read somewhere, that the ps3 is projected to almost double the sales of the xbox 360 within 1 year after its release. Can anyone find anything related to this or point me in the direction? I believe that the ps3 will surpass the 360 but not double its sales. What do you all think?
Yes, I think it is fair to say with 100% certainty that a console with no official specs or release date will easily outsell a console on the market which is so popular that it sells out everywhere immediately (except in Japan).
it is possible. ps2 has sold over 100 million consoles. the original xbox has only sold like 26 million. they are just going on previous outcomes.
Wait till the middle of March and see what they say. With the release of FN3, Ghost Recon, Gears of War (possibly), battlefield 2, and many other games in febuary and March people will be insane not to get a 360.
Of course the 360 will be outsold by the PS3. Asia will have PS3 frenzy much the same way as America did for 360. Only much longer...
The problem is that the name "Playstation" is part of pop culture, just like the iPod is. It's cool to have a Playstation, all your buddies have one, they rap about them in music videos, and your TV is flooded with pro-sony propaganda. It's not that these people don't like the xbox, it's that thier choices are influenced by mainstream media and popular trendiness.
MS seems to be attempting to make XBOX360 a household name this time around. We've definatly seen the system marketed more "freshly" than the last xbox and hopefully it can become the standard this time around by utilizing the head start we have have on Sony.
MS seems to be attempting to make XBOX360 a household name this time around. We've definatly seen the system marketed more "freshly" than the last xbox and hopefully it can become the standard this time around by utilizing the head start we have have on Sony.
QUOTE(gadgetHacks_er @ Jan 20 2006, 05:16 PM)
I had read somewhere, that the ps3 is projected to almost double the sales of the xbox 360 within 1 year after its release. Can anyone find anything related to this or point me in the direction? I believe that the ps3 will surpass the 360 but not double its sales. What do you all think?
I think that it will take more than a year for Sony just to surpass x360 sales, but I am pretty sure that Sony will pass the xbox unless they really screw up the launch of the PS3.
as for the article that M_hael pointed out, that doesnt mean that it will be twice the number of 360's at all and yes it does seem intended to hurt the 360. honestly though IF sony can keep up with demand then i dont see how 4-7 million by year end is too big of a goal, also IF they really launch in spring if MS was able to keep up with demand they would have almost 3 million units in homes now. just because the ps3 is coming out does not mean that the 360 will stop selling at a fast pace.
if MS was able to keep up with demand they would have almost 3 million units in homes now. just because the ps3 is coming out does not mean that the 360 will stop selling at a fast pace.
NOw, I hate the PS2, and I am not planning on getting a PS3, but I can say with almost 100% certainty, that at the end of this console generation, Sony will be on top once agian.
It might take awhile, but it is going to happen, simply because they have such a huge install base.
It might take awhile, but it is going to happen, simply because they have such a huge install base.
Don't believe all the reports that you see. They also said that the PS3 could be around $600.
I want PS3...!!!!!!!!
If history repeats itself (as it's always been the case in video game industry), M$ will capture the market this time....
What does that even mean...to lose again?
Are you saying that if PS3 sells 999,999,999 consoles and 360 sells 999,999,998 consoles, Xbox will have lost again? This argument and point makes no sense! I am getting sick and tired of these retarded threads about losing and wining. It has no business significance.
MS wants to grab market share and with that create a stream of everlasting revenue that will recoup its investment in Xbox and Xbox 360. By the end of the 360's life, they hope to have turned a profit. If they do that, they will have won. This is how business works. Its not a sporting event, you just dont want to blindly WIN, that means nothing. You want to make money, that is everything. Of course MS wants to one day have a bigger market share than Sony, but keeping that as a strategy is a going to make you "lose"
Are you saying that if PS3 sells 999,999,999 consoles and 360 sells 999,999,998 consoles, Xbox will have lost again? This argument and point makes no sense! I am getting sick and tired of these retarded threads about losing and wining. It has no business significance.
MS wants to grab market share and with that create a stream of everlasting revenue that will recoup its investment in Xbox and Xbox 360. By the end of the 360's life, they hope to have turned a profit. If they do that, they will have won. This is how business works. Its not a sporting event, you just dont want to blindly WIN, that means nothing. You want to make money, that is everything. Of course MS wants to one day have a bigger market share than Sony, but keeping that as a strategy is a going to make you "lose"
QUOTE(miggidy @ Jan 20 2006, 11:12 AM)
If history repeats itself (as it's always been the case in video game industry), M$ will capture the market this time....
How do you figure? Dreamcast was first and we all know how that ended up.
QUOTE(Jonm888 @ Jan 20 2006, 02:20 PM)
How do you figure? Dreamcast was first and we all know how that ended up.
there are many differences between the DC and the 360 in the fact that sega was bleeding money left and right and just couldnt afford to stay in the console war. if sega had micrsoft's money then they would have done great this past gen.
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Jan 20 2006, 11:23 AM)
there are many differences between the DC and the 360 in the fact that sega was bleeding money left and right and just couldnt afford to stay in the console war. if sega had micrsoft's money then they would have done great this past gen.
I realize that DC and 360 are different. I'm not even trying to compare the two systems because I don't see them that similar, and I don't want to turn this into a 360 vs. Dreamcast discussion. I'm just saying that first out doesn't mean the winner. Also if we want to compare history, Sony has won every time they have entered the console race. But, I think it will be interesting to see if M$ can take a big marketshare.
QUOTE(arashd @ Jan 20 2006, 07:15 PM)
What does that even mean...to lose again?
Are you saying that if PS3 sells 999,999,999 consoles and 360 sells 999,999,998 consoles, Xbox will have lost again? This argument and point makes no sense! I am getting sick and tired of these retarded threads about losing and wining. It has no business significance.
MS wants to grab market share and with that create a stream of everlasting revenue that will recoup its investment in Xbox and Xbox 360. By the end of the 360's life, they hope to have turned a profit. If they do that, they will have won. This is how business works. Its not a sporting event, you just dont want to blindly WIN, that means nothing. You want to make money, that is everything. Of course MS wants to one day have a bigger market share than Sony, but keeping that as a strategy is a going to make you "lose"
I totally, completely and utterly agree. In the last generation Ps2 sold the most, Xbox was in the middle and Gamecube was at the bottom. If I remember rightly though Sony and M$ never made a profit from their hardware where as Nintendo did from day one. So who is the loser?
Who sold the most doesn't really count if you are in business to make money here and now. Sony and M$ fight for market share where as Nintendo knows it isn't as big a company as either and cannot compete as they don't have other products to fall back on. So they quietly do their own thing while keeping comfortably afloat.
People just seem to assume that all companies want to monopolise. I think Nintendo learnt from SEGA and has decided not to over stretch itself.
Innovation is the key!
QUOTE(Jonm888 @ Jan 20 2006, 07:20 PM)
How do you figure? Dreamcast was first and we all know how that ended up.
In that situation Sony ruthlessly kicked SEGA when it was down. It didn't even need to. I think Sony was so strong at the time that they could have just left Sega and carried on. If Sony had toned down the collosul hype machine then maybe Sega would still be in hardware. After all Nintendo still is and I think that's simply because Sony hasn't bad mouthed them anywhere near to the extent that they did SEGA. There are a lot of 'yes men' Sony fanboys out there who will lap up anything that Sony say.
Although, the tide is changing!
As the worlds biggest XBOX and 360 Fan.. let me say this..
The PS3.. while maybe not a real console yet.. and specs are surely going to change again before it is real, will do incredibly well in it's first year. I have no doubt they'll easily double whatever sales 360 manages to garner. Why?
The playstation fan base is monsterous. Just look at the installed based of PS2 vs Xbox. Xbox has in the neighborhood of 22 million console on the market (not including the 360 sales) and ps2 has in the area od 90-94 million.
Sony.. knows it's market. They will do quite well.
So.. with that being said.. that puts Xbox360 in second place. That's fine. The Xbox fan base is a different beast. FPS shooters and racing drove the Xbox. While ps2 had those.. it was their RPG and adventure games that drove those sales.
There are aot of cross-over fans.. as their should be.
However, 360 isn't being sold on the back of just it's retail games. Sony's ps3 to date.. will be. MS is making money hand over fist with LIVE Arcade and Marketplace. MS has learned to adapt to a changing market. Sony, will little or no real plan for an intergrate online presence, hasn't learned, and hasn't adapted.
Many of their games are already promising a fragmented online experience. MS offers a unified experience.
Xbox360 will be second.. but with the market share they gained last round.. I expect them to further gain ground this round. Gates has also commited to the generation beyond this.. so he isn't afriad to come in second again.
Losing.. would be if they get driven out of the market. Even if the 360 never catches on in Japan/Asia.. the success of North America for it will be enough to ensure XBOX will remain a contender for many, many years to come.
Microsoft.. isn't Sega. Ms has a long term plan, and the will to follow it through.. not to mention the deep pocket to make it all happen.
Xbox is here to stay. Now it's up to Sony to make the ps3 equally as interesting. I don't mean BLuray either. I mean give us a great online experience. Give us options online. I have no doubt they won't fail us on the game side. But gaming has changed.. and Sony needs to acknowledge that fact with their next console.
Even Nintendo.. which once poked fun at the people who play online.. have now done an about face, and promise an onine integration in their next "Revolution".
The PS3.. while maybe not a real console yet.. and specs are surely going to change again before it is real, will do incredibly well in it's first year. I have no doubt they'll easily double whatever sales 360 manages to garner. Why?
The playstation fan base is monsterous. Just look at the installed based of PS2 vs Xbox. Xbox has in the neighborhood of 22 million console on the market (not including the 360 sales) and ps2 has in the area od 90-94 million.
Sony.. knows it's market. They will do quite well.
So.. with that being said.. that puts Xbox360 in second place. That's fine. The Xbox fan base is a different beast. FPS shooters and racing drove the Xbox. While ps2 had those.. it was their RPG and adventure games that drove those sales.
There are aot of cross-over fans.. as their should be.
However, 360 isn't being sold on the back of just it's retail games. Sony's ps3 to date.. will be. MS is making money hand over fist with LIVE Arcade and Marketplace. MS has learned to adapt to a changing market. Sony, will little or no real plan for an intergrate online presence, hasn't learned, and hasn't adapted.
Many of their games are already promising a fragmented online experience. MS offers a unified experience.
Xbox360 will be second.. but with the market share they gained last round.. I expect them to further gain ground this round. Gates has also commited to the generation beyond this.. so he isn't afriad to come in second again.
Losing.. would be if they get driven out of the market. Even if the 360 never catches on in Japan/Asia.. the success of North America for it will be enough to ensure XBOX will remain a contender for many, many years to come.
Microsoft.. isn't Sega. Ms has a long term plan, and the will to follow it through.. not to mention the deep pocket to make it all happen.
Xbox is here to stay. Now it's up to Sony to make the ps3 equally as interesting. I don't mean BLuray either. I mean give us a great online experience. Give us options online. I have no doubt they won't fail us on the game side. But gaming has changed.. and Sony needs to acknowledge that fact with their next console.
Even Nintendo.. which once poked fun at the people who play online.. have now done an about face, and promise an onine integration in their next "Revolution".
i would also like for everyone to consider for a second that for a fact, almost everyone who bough a ps2 had it die, and then bought another one,... so if every ps2 owner actually bought 2 because of hardware failure, we can cut those sales figures in half right now.
xboxs users have more than one console not because the first broke, but because they are good enough to warrant having multiple units in one home.
if ms would just make everyone that has a problem with thier unit buy a new one, then ms could possibly reach the same sales figures as sony
but at the end of the day i guess i have to spread my anger evenly between the company that lies (sony & thier tech partners) and the hordes of brain-dead fanboys and media who eat those lies up by the spoonfull
xboxs users have more than one console not because the first broke, but because they are good enough to warrant having multiple units in one home.
if ms would just make everyone that has a problem with thier unit buy a new one, then ms could possibly reach the same sales figures as sony
but at the end of the day i guess i have to spread my anger evenly between the company that lies (sony & thier tech partners) and the hordes of brain-dead fanboys and media who eat those lies up by the spoonfull
I think its safe to sayMS will Sell if not more Units than Sony
darn close this "go round"
heres the Idea of Supply and Demand
Income Tax time of the Year..a New System after Xmas
i'm getting 2 of them hehe lol
also P.S Vista Released with 360 intergreation
Imagine all the Newest PC Games and 360 games..COMBINED ONLINE to create the Ultimate Gaming World
HAHA MS owns Sony now lol
by the way..Did i mention by the time PS3 is released
u will know the secret Hattricks that X marks the Spot once again
have a Great YR
If there was a winner and loser it wouldn't decide if your system was good or not. Healthy competition is important to keep prices realistic.
The Xbox 360 is the poon in my tang. It is a multimedia center that has a kissin' cousin named media center and this cute thang will win all you country folk over and make you buy 'puters wid media center and hi defination tv's and cables and remotes and even MTV music. So cuz billy ain't worried 'bout no PISS3 comen 'long and takin his corn squeezins cuz he knows that for every gamerboy PISS3 wins, why there's 5 church going folks who will buy the Xbox360, pretty slick iffen you were to ask me.
It's called "horizontal integration", course I thought that wuz what Betty Jean and I did last night but, hey what do I know?
It's called "horizontal integration", course I thought that wuz what Betty Jean and I did last night but, hey what do I know?
Good points made above about there being no "winner" or "loser" in this.
Whether or not PS3 or the 360 sells more units is fairly meaningless to gamers. The competition itself makes us the winners, since the competition requires the consoles to innovate, keep prices in line, work extra hard.
And if you end up preferring the 360 to the ps3, it won't make a difference if ps3 "beats" the 360 4:1. There will be a huge base of 360 gamers who will get great games and keep both MS and sony working hard.
Unlike in any given videogame, there's no need for there to be an ultimate winner in this, and it is certainly not inevitable. The market has proven it can handle 3 consoles, and we're all better off.
Whether or not PS3 or the 360 sells more units is fairly meaningless to gamers. The competition itself makes us the winners, since the competition requires the consoles to innovate, keep prices in line, work extra hard.
And if you end up preferring the 360 to the ps3, it won't make a difference if ps3 "beats" the 360 4:1. There will be a huge base of 360 gamers who will get great games and keep both MS and sony working hard.
Unlike in any given videogame, there's no need for there to be an ultimate winner in this, and it is certainly not inevitable. The market has proven it can handle 3 consoles, and we're all better off.
QUOTE(LateraLex @ Jan 20 2006, 01:50 PM)
If there was a winner and loser it wouldn't decide if your system was good or not. Healthy competition is important to keep prices realistic.
no kidding,.. imaging how much sony would try and soak people for if there was no 360 or revolution
QUOTE(tracemhunter @ Jan 20 2006, 12:03 PM)
it is possible. ps2 has sold over 100 million consoles. the original xbox has only sold like 26 million. they are just going on previous outcomes.
well the ps2 also had a good few years advantage, and you got to remember all the asians love the ps2, but remember how many people probably bought new systems do to their system crapping out.
I saw this topic and feared flame war...it's nice to see such thoughtful posts. All the kiddies must be in class 
You are right about the winner-loser thing. But in terms of categorizing "winners" and "losers", we can not yet accurately guage dominance. It is safe to say that $ony's customer base will not fail them.
BUT...we need to wait and see the retail price of the PS3. If you can guy a 360 and HD-DVD player add-on for $50 less (for example) than a PS3, while being able to network it with your home PC, then non-fanboys will make the switch. The Final Fantasy games are coming to the 360, Fable is attractive, plus the other upcoming killer apps..will all make a difference.
But we need to see the price of the PS3 first.
You are right about the winner-loser thing. But in terms of categorizing "winners" and "losers", we can not yet accurately guage dominance. It is safe to say that $ony's customer base will not fail them.
BUT...we need to wait and see the retail price of the PS3. If you can guy a 360 and HD-DVD player add-on for $50 less (for example) than a PS3, while being able to network it with your home PC, then non-fanboys will make the switch. The Final Fantasy games are coming to the 360, Fable is attractive, plus the other upcoming killer apps..will all make a difference.
But we need to see the price of the PS3 first.
QUOTE(HSDEMONZ @ Jan 20 2006, 09:25 PM)
Sony, will little or no real plan for an intergrate online presence, hasn't learned, and hasn't adapted.
well i dont know how true this is but i thought it was interesting.
http://www.gameshout.com/news/012006/article2661.htm
sony confirms PS3 live service
QUOTE(Jonm888 @ Jan 20 2006, 08:20 PM)
How do you figure? Dreamcast was first and we all know how that ended up.
That's not what I meant. I meant history that goes way back before the Dreamcast.
Not one console manufacturer has been able to dominate the market for more than two generations.
Again, if history repeats itself as has always been the case, Sony's going to lose its grip on the console market. Then again, Sony can rewrite history if they're able to keep their share of the pie this time around
For now, I'll chow on my
and watch it all unfold....
Well I know one thing is for certain. Gamecube still sold more consoles than xbox360 did in the month of December. Maybe it was because MS couldn't supply them to everyone who wanted one.
What a shame to MS that a old systems still sold more than there very own brand new system. I bet M$ hates shit like that rubbed in... owww it hurts
What a shame to MS that a old systems still sold more than there very own brand new system. I bet M$ hates shit like that rubbed in... owww it hurts
Everyone I know.. who has owned a PS2.. had to buy a replacement within 1-2 years of purchase due to it failing and ultimately dying. In some cases, some are on their third.
Non of which was due to modifications, etc.
Compared to the robust Xbox.. I can take the exact same group of people (hey.. we're all gamers.. and most of use have both anyways) and non hard to replace their unmodded xboxs due to failure and death of the unit.
I'd hate to say half of the ps2 says numbers are people buying replacements.. since I've got no real numbers to support that.. however, in the back of my head.. I have to look around and take note that noone I know has their original Ps2 in working condition.
As an Xbox fan it would be awesome if their were some hard numbers showing half their numbers are replacements for dead/bad sony hardware. Lord know.. we're used to it.. PSX was no better. Same Failure rates. Some might argue higher. (personally. PSx was a hardier unit.. but that same groups of gamers I spoke of had similar expereinces with their psx as they did/do their ps2.
Frankly.. the only reason they kept buying replacements.. is because of their initial GAME investments with their first purchases of the console.
Well I know one thing is for certain. Gamecube still sold more consoles than xbox360 did in the month of December. Maybe it was because MS couldn't supply them to everyone who wanted one.
What a shame to MS that a old systems still sold more than there very own brand new system. I bet M$ hates shit like that rubbed in... owww it hurts
I'm sure MS wishes number like that never saw the light of day. However, Nintendo is a strong company, and still sells very good products. I think at times they have ignored key segments of the market.. however.. it's clear they intend to try and play catchup with the next Gen.
Shame we'll be forced to use nun-chucks to play Mario
Non of which was due to modifications, etc.
Compared to the robust Xbox.. I can take the exact same group of people (hey.. we're all gamers.. and most of use have both anyways) and non hard to replace their unmodded xboxs due to failure and death of the unit.
I'd hate to say half of the ps2 says numbers are people buying replacements.. since I've got no real numbers to support that.. however, in the back of my head.. I have to look around and take note that noone I know has their original Ps2 in working condition.
As an Xbox fan it would be awesome if their were some hard numbers showing half their numbers are replacements for dead/bad sony hardware. Lord know.. we're used to it.. PSX was no better. Same Failure rates. Some might argue higher. (personally. PSx was a hardier unit.. but that same groups of gamers I spoke of had similar expereinces with their psx as they did/do their ps2.
Frankly.. the only reason they kept buying replacements.. is because of their initial GAME investments with their first purchases of the console.
QUOTE(mathers3000 @ Jan 20 2006, 10:52 PM)
Well I know one thing is for certain. Gamecube still sold more consoles than xbox360 did in the month of December. Maybe it was because MS couldn't supply them to everyone who wanted one.
What a shame to MS that a old systems still sold more than there very own brand new system. I bet M$ hates shit like that rubbed in... owww it hurts
I'm sure MS wishes number like that never saw the light of day. However, Nintendo is a strong company, and still sells very good products. I think at times they have ignored key segments of the market.. however.. it's clear they intend to try and play catchup with the next Gen.
Shame we'll be forced to use nun-chucks to play Mario
QUOTE(mathers3000 @ Jan 20 2006, 10:52 PM)
Well I know one thing is for certain. Gamecube still sold more consoles than xbox360 did in the month of December. Maybe it was because MS couldn't supply them to everyone who wanted one.
What a shame to MS that a old systems still sold more than there very own brand new system. I bet M$ hates shit like that rubbed in... owww it hurts
Yeah in Japan. You think the Gamecube sold 400K units in america or europe that month?
My Playstation 2 never caused me ONE SECOND worth of trouble. I used HD Loader on it (of course), but it never once caused me ANY problems.
QUOTE(JamesCrow @ Jan 21 2006, 05:14 PM)
My Playstation 2 never caused me ONE SECOND worth of trouble. I used HD Loader on it (of course), but it never once caused me ANY problems.
consider yourself very very lucky because like HSDEMONZ said everybody i know Ps2 has crapped out on them
I have modded PSones, PS2, xbox, GC and a few other things I can get my hands on. A product is a product, it depends on manufacture location and practises, quality of supplies and ratio of expectation. I have seen my share of problems with all gaming systems, like most things, once you get use to something then you are comfortable with it. The majority of fanboys that I have met regardless of which console thy love is mainly because they are not familurize with the others.
Personally though, I do prefer the xbox as my favorite but now with the 360 out, it's going to be another learning curve and finding the time do achive it quickly.
Personally though, I do prefer the xbox as my favorite but now with the 360 out, it's going to be another learning curve and finding the time do achive it quickly.
Im sorry, what?
If the 360 sells one for every two PS3s sold, then Sony will be in the shit.
Do the math. While not even considering Nintendos markets share, if MS end up with half the market share of Sony, the will have done spectacularly well and Sony will have failed terribly.
Sonys profits have dropped by a quarter in the last 5 years, they cant afford to lose ANY market share. Even if by then end of this gen they have 51%, giving them a bigger total than XBOX and Nintendo put together, that 15-20% of ground lost will have big, big consequences.
If the 360 sells one for every two PS3s sold, then Sony will be in the shit.
Do the math. While not even considering Nintendos markets share, if MS end up with half the market share of Sony, the will have done spectacularly well and Sony will have failed terribly.
Sonys profits have dropped by a quarter in the last 5 years, they cant afford to lose ANY market share. Even if by then end of this gen they have 51%, giving them a bigger total than XBOX and Nintendo put together, that 15-20% of ground lost will have big, big consequences.
HSDEMONZ nice point about playstation owners having to buy multiple replacements. It is very true.
I know Xbox isn't going to win the numbers game and frankly I don't care. I will have the better product (360) more suited to my likes and wants. Two of those would simply be the phenomenal Halo series and Xbox Live.
I know Xbox isn't going to win the numbers game and frankly I don't care. I will have the better product (360) more suited to my likes and wants. Two of those would simply be the phenomenal Halo series and Xbox Live.
Id agree with that.
The only reason people would care is if they had bought the ill fated Dreamcast. Not that im suggesting any of the 3 systems will fail this gen, they wont, but it does put a irrational will in you for your chosen console to succceed so that the plug sint pulled (Dreamcast).
The only reason people would care is if they had bought the ill fated Dreamcast. Not that im suggesting any of the 3 systems will fail this gen, they wont, but it does put a irrational will in you for your chosen console to succceed so that the plug sint pulled (Dreamcast).
QUOTE
Everyone I know.. who has owned a PS2.. had to buy a replacement within 1-2 years of purchase due to it failing and ultimately dying. In some cases, some are on their third.
I've had my PS2 for 5 years and it's still running fine. Most people I know haven't had any problems either. You can't say that the 100 million figure should be cut in half. And even if the PS2 crapped out on someone and they bought another one, then you would have to figure they would do the same if their PS3 crapped out. I had my Playstation when it first was released also in what '95 or something, and I never had to replace that.
And you talk about people buying 2 xbox's to mod them or whatever, then MS's sales numbers should be cut in half.
It's a simple fact that all 3 companies are going to WIN. Unless they really mess up, then Sony, MS, and Nintendo will all turn a **PROFIT** and be WINNERS.
this is data i would really like to know. i would really like date from some sort of survey done at walmart gamestop eb ext. i wonder what % of the people buying another one cuz their died.
all i wanna say is why do u all care about whos winning and losing. isnt it about us gamers. i for one has always had all the consoles. i like choices.. there are some games i liked better on ps2 and some games on xbox... now that i have the 360 i love **almost** everything about it but i still cant wait for the ps3 because of some if its features like 1080p.blueray etc etc.
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