Ok 1st off yes I am a noob at backing up my Xbox games- please spare me the comments about it I think its more than obvious! I know how to backup my Dvd's make VCD's and make backups of pc games etc but a lil new to this field.... Please read my whole post before responding

My question is:
Why is it that a person cant do a simple 1:1 backup of a DVD game (of choice) and run it directly off the game console (using the DVD) why is a "Mod chip" needed or any extra effort needed in getting the game backup to play as it would normally on the original DVD?

For example obviously Movie DVD's need to be shrank in order to fit them onto 1 DVD 5 and get an exact copy which will play on a DVD player as the original does. Or a Game CD for the PC needs to have the copyright removed inorder to perform a 1:1 backup all funtion properly without modding the PC or DVD player- so why is it that Xbox/PS2 need modded in some way before being able to successfully making a 1:1 backup that will play on the console?

If you think about it there is not 1 "Master Copy" of each game out there and just 1 company printing off millions of these copies off of 1 game DVD, or one master computer that reads and prints game files so there has to be a way they are making copies such as a program or something.

Im not trying to be an @ss here and even though all replies are welcomed assumptions are not required, I can guess a few different reasons myself but in correcting the problem I would just like a sure answer.

Thanks to all who read this

answer: SECURITY

I've answered this several times so you could search, but we'll see what we can do here.There is no such thing as a 1:1 DVD backup. You in your life have never made a 1:1 DVD copy because it isn't allowed as part of the DVD spec. It is physically impossible with writable media and DVD burners to make a 1:1 backup.if you have shrunk the movie (i.e. recompressed it) you are no longer working with an exact copy anywaydid you mean copy protection? This sounds like what a modchip does. Actually you are dead wrong. There is 1 master. It's made of glass. And there is one company making the DVDs for the XBOX, MS, using their own non-standard proprietory format and security.

Basically the 2048bit encryption key is what is keeping us from running backups. If you crack it, I'll buy you a beer.

maybe i'm confusing my apples (xbox) for oranges (xbox360), but some ?'s about the regular xbox...

whats the deal with security sectors and using double layered discs? do people go through this trouble to run their backups on unmodified xboxes? or with the regular xboxes, do you still have to flash a modified dvd player firmware? i ask because i'm using a software mod and was afraid (thru inadvertant dash updating, etc) that my box may revert back and that i might not be able to run my backups that i have made.

thanks,
dk

Mr Ed- thanks for your detailed response... I guess in reading one important part of your message I realized something but that brought up another question as well. Here is the specific part I am reffering to:



I hadnt thought about it that way unlike movies, pc games, cd's etc, PS2 (Sony) & XBox (MS) run off of 1 console ie. their own brand and use their own brand of software even though they are putting it onto a DVD. In otherwords it doesnt have to play off of 10,000 different kinds of cd players 1,000's of different DVD players it just has to play on their own single console. But that statement also brings up another question: For Sony (PS2) are you stating that companies such as Electronic arts, Neversoft, Aklaim etc. or for Xbox Electronic arts, Monster games etc. dont produce thier own games (Im not doubting just questioning) if this is a fact then how do the game companies get their games to MS or sony for resale or how do they get the games that they have created to play on the consoles for game proposal- well before the game has been marketed?

You are right in stating I have never made a 1:1 backup of a DVD sorry for the misrepresentation I consider it a 1:1 in that while viewing everthing is the same however obviously the DVD needs to be shrank to fit onto a DVD 5 from a DVD 8.... Which in all honesty Im sure there is a vendor out there that would sell DVD writeable 8's to the public so everything would fit but then software would probably need to be modified etc. My point is if a company is using a certain type of media, a certain type of burner, etc. it is most definatley available to the public as well you just have to find the right person/people to ask and have the right amount of money but it could be done.... back to your comment about the 1 master copy DVD which MS burns to make all the games and is also made of glass:


1st how did they make this glass one, where does it write from/to and obviously they dont have 1 master copy... Im sure they wouldnt shut down an "assembly line" for days heaven forbid that 1 master glass disc should break, scratch, chip etc. and furthermore MS is a pretty big company, Im 99.9% sure there isnt 1 master copy in 1 building which makes games for around the world, in different languages, and does this for 100's of games all in time to get them for xmas..... sounds a little Santa Clausish to me which goes back to my original statement of:

Although there may be 1 company there is definatley not 1 Master copy... seems like they would speed this up a lil in making a dupe DVD somehow and sending that out to all the different MS game factory locations around the world instead of sending glass ones which could get damaged along the way.

in closing I will buy the encryption statment, and buy the statement about the companies using their own software for their own console- in looking at the later statement it would be like panasonic making movie DVD's for the Model PAN-1210 model and they only play on that model, I understand that, but I wont buy the statement about MS using only 1 Glass Master Copy for all the different game plants and having to rotat that 1 master copy around... in business terms thats just not carrier friendly. I still believe there is a way to take out the security checks, add a bootup sequence so the console reads it, and copy the files so it will play.

Yes sir, its called a softmod/modchip/TSOP flash/ DVD firmware hack.

There's several things here that play a role. Game makers can release debug games that would play on a wider veriaety of systems that don't contain media checks. Really none of these game makers produce their own final/commercial/golden master DVDs although they may make DVD-R versions for prerelease for the press that would play on debug systems. You need to read about the manufacture of commercial DVDs. A DVD-R or DVD-R D/L is never reproduced into a commercial DVD (although it can contain the files used to make a commercial DVD.) All commercial DVDs that have DSS encryption must be made into a glass master first. Not a DVD-R. So techincally, to answer your question, "yes" none of these game makers actually make their DVDs. As to how they get them to a DVD manuf. facility? They usually ship each layer on a seperate DLT tape. They can also SCP or FTP the layers.
You mean DVD9s. Yes, they exist. I have a bunch. They are a bit more expensive. But even if you use them you will never get a 1:1 copy. The DVD inventors made sure the writable media doesn't have security sectors (only glass masters do) so a DVD-R D/L cannot duplicate the encryption information and it is physically impossible to make a 1:1 copy of a DVD even with D/L media. The burners can't write to those areas and the writable media doesn't have those areas. The people who own the patents license the technology and they say what the spec is.Dude, I'm a hacker. If this was possible I would have done it already. The point is, I don't have a manufacturing facility to press discs based on the glass master, nor can I manufacture my own glass master. That's what they use. Commerical discs are not "burned" nor are they made directly from burned discs.please read about the DVD creation process. If you cannot tell me how a glass master is created, then you shouldn't yet be asking these questions, you need to do some more research.didn't mean to imply there was only 1

Nope.

another thing you need to realize is that a master die and a production die are 2 different things, they could very use the single glass master to produce multiple production dies, then use those dies to stamp the dvds

they do the same thing with coins