Major Nelson's podcast on HD DVD vs. Blu-ray Posted by XanTium | July 17 12:17 EST

From hdbeat.com: [QUOTE] For the second time this year, Xbox Live's Larry Hyrb a.k.a. Major Nelson has a high definition expert, actually two, appear on his podcast to extol the virtues of HD DVD. The two experts appearing this week include Amir M., who many of you are already familiar with due to his frequent posts on AVSForum, and Kevin Collins, both work on Microsoft's efforts promoting iHD, VC-1 and HD DVD. If you're familiar with Microsoft's stated reasoning for supporting HD DVD instead of remaining neutral or supporting Blu-ray there won't be a lot of new info here, but probably enough to make a listen worthwhile. Be warned that if you're a Blu-ray fanboy this isn't exactly the equal-time special, if you're expecting the Blu-ray side of things to be presented you'll need to look elsewhere. However being biased towards the HD DVD side (not mentioning reported issues with HD DVD players and promoting recent firmware upgrades as a benefit and not a side effect of rushing to launch for example) doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth. Their main points are clear, 30GB dual-layer HD DVD over 25GB single-layer Blu-ray, VC-1 HD DVD releases over MPEG-2 Blu-ray releases and already available iHD-enhanced titles over potentially limited BD-J support in current players. Kevin is especially proud of HD DVD's interactive features and mandatory player requirement of persistent storage, which he believes will result in more studios supporting added functionality such as bookmarking, content downloads etc. on HD DVD as opposed to Blu-ray. They also touch on the subjects of compromise and studio support, they don't expect a compromise, or for either format to go away in the next few years, and that more movie studios will support HD DVD as time goes on. They also think that despite being outnumbered by number of studios, HD DVD will still have many quality titles available from the studios already supporting the format. Amir minimized the differences in transfer rate in the specifications and their potential effect on gaming, and the Xbox 360 vs. Playstation 3 debate. [/QUOTE] Read More: hdbeat.com Download the MP3 Podcast: majornelson.com

Sounds good. Thats alot of storage on 1 single disk, how fast does it take to write all of tha data to the disk though?

"30GB dual-layer HD DVD over 25GB single-layer Blu-ray"

Over??? Hmm. is the major in bed with somebody. I do believe so. The major can take his whack boots and march over the cliff along with the rest of the American millitary brass.

longstory short
part 1 explains how hd-dvd pwnz bluray
lolz

LoL! I don't see why they compared dual-layer HD-DVD over single-layer BR. Of course it's bigger, DUH! Single layer HD-DVD 15GB though. What freakin idiot would compare that? They've gotten BR layers up to 200GB! Don't mess with crap you don't understand Nelson. Of course he's gonna talk up hype with crap about HD-DVD, because M$ supports it. And every person out there that supports HD-DVD (or BR) without knowing facts is just plain stupid. Do your own research, I wouldn't go by the BS crap this guy says. The features that HD-DVD DO look cool, and I'm not pro Java-supported BR, but I am an avid computer storage fan, and single-layer 25GB BR is much better than single-layer 15GB HD-DVD, not to mention dual-layer 50GB vs dual-layer 30GB? Ya, your stats got owned Nelson. This is a horrible form of viral marketing. M$ can do better than this.

Now that PS3 launch is close M§ punks get shaky knees that its gonna smoke their crap and start to compare ps3 with their own console themselves alot to explain why getting ps3 over 360 "sucks"..

I'm no sony fanboy, I never had a ps2 but I bet Major Nelson and his x360 redneck-crew know blueray is better than hddvd but they couldnt use it for their console cause it comes from their #1 competitor sony so its unimaginable for em to use this technology. Well its np, if br gonna become best storage device u can go and buy a 360 premium for 200 bucks cause noone will want it.

HD-DVD sounds better , so i will buy that.

wow...so many haters lol. the blurb on the front page of XS even told u this was ALL about hd-dvd's pros, nothing about blue ray.

on other points....
- HD-dvd has also claimed it can run 3 layers (thats 45gb, which is close enough to dual BL to be compettative)
- the difference in capacity is probably (from my thinking...) due to the fact that HD-DVD currently uses the same layer depths (.6 mm (i think its mm)) as regular dvd's, where as BL uses something like 1.4 or 1.6, allowing more storage (thats what i think at least...)
- seriously doubt they got 200gb on a single BL LAYER (im skeptical, but show me the proof and i wont argue)
- and you should all know by now that this media war won't be settled on technical aspects, considering they're both up to par for HD content, it'll be based on support from studios and buyers. BL is more expensive than HD-DVD, the question is will the average consumer buy into BL because of what it offers for more, or will they buy into HD-DVD for what it offers at a less costly price?

side note...MS did a good job staying out of this, they can go either way with an external player (for BL or HD-dvd), sure it won't look the "greatest" but it'll be handy for when this little war is decided. Think about it, if HD-DVD wins, ps3 is screwed, and hard.

"both work on MS's efforts promoting iHD, VC-1 and HD DVD."

What's up with the racist remark? And in case you have not noticed, store displays that have side by side HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray so far have shown that HD-DVD looks better. Right now the codecs that HD-DVD use
are better than those of Blu-Ray and thats a fact.

Lol codecs ... come on man is that all you got? codecs can be used same on both players u poor m§ fanboy kid.

Dont defend 360 only cause u paid mass money for it and it isnt the newest stuff out on the market. Hf upgrading to a hdmi output too. My remark wasnt racist at all, read it as often untill you understand it how it supposes to be..

Theoretically is it possible to get 720p or 1080i out of the dvd on the xbox 360 with a software upgrade (ie MS releases an update)? Or is the dvd player itself limited to 480p output? Any insights appreciated. Thanks

This is pathetic. It'd almost be non-news except that the Major is apparently acting like a PR flack in this particular case. You'd expect a MS employee to say nothing good about the competition on the record, and that's exactly what we have here. If you listen to JUST him (or by proxy to JUST MS's message), however, then you're stupid. You have to use your head to try to put ALL the pieces together, and that requires listening to Sony's message too.

I own an X-Box AND a PS2, before I go any further. Both get equal use. I'm no fanboy--no, wait, I take that back, I'm an INDUSTRY fanboy. I've been collecting (and not selling) every system I could get over the years, so no accusations of me being strictly pro-Sony.

..but still, MS has botched the HD-DVD thing entirely. Refusing to let it be used with games spells VERY badly for second or third generation games on the 360 once they convincingly hit the limits of what the 9GB dual-layer DVD can store. This is one thing the PS3 DOES get right-- if the PS3 survives that long, they'll have a permanent convincing advantage. I'll say this much.. HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray is completely tied to the PS3 vs 360 war at this point. If the PS3 bones it, HD-DVD is set to win. If the PS3 succeeds, Blu-Ray will be hurled forward into the limelight with the PS3.

Basically, the 360 only has one chance to win, and that's to crush the PS3 before it can really get moving.. or, by the same token, to let the PS3 crush itself if Sony mismanages it (a real possibility, I conclude-- Sony isn't all that in-tune with its customers and hasn't been for a good long while.)

What an idiot. My post was about HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray. I SAID NOTHING about the 360 YOU RACIST MORON.

I don't agree with you here, I think that games should not be released on HD-DVD on the x360.

Games consoles are all about dealing with constraints, the amount of processor, GPU, bandwidth, I/O and storage are all limited. DVD capacity isn't the primary limiting constraint when it comes to 2nd and 3rd generation games; developers will be spending more time and effort solving more complex problems dealing with GPU, CPU (multi-threadded processing) and internal bandwith issues.

The big storage hogs on the last generation like full motion video are being replaced with dynamically generated cut scenes. This allows for an more immersive experiance while greatly reducing storage requirements. This also allows game demo downloads to be reasonably sized (Less than 1 gig) and still contain all game content. The game demos on xbox live definately drive game sales which is very appealing to publishers. Game demo downloads that are larger than 5 gigabytes just are not feasible with the storage capacity of the x360 and the typical amount of bandwidth a home user has.

Uhm, well right now, HD-DVD is using VC-1 for their videos while Blu-Ray is using MPEG-2 for their videos. This is the reason why a good amount of people who have purchased Blu-Ray players have returned them.

Right now, HD-DVD has the best codec. And while Blu-Ray has support for VC-1, they aren't using it, they are using MPEG-2.

Back onto the topic, Best Buy is advertising HD-DVD in the current Sunday advertisement which is strange considering that a good amount of reports mentioned that Best Buy is supporting Blu-Ray over HD-DVD.

the codec being used on all current blu-ray discs is mpeg2. BD movies look like turd because using this older codec requires roughly twice the storage space as VC-1, which is what all HD DVD movies are using. blu-ray is limited to ONLY 25 GB discs at this time. they can not mass produce dual layer 50 GB discs because of the high failure rate(in time this may or MAY NOT improve). the failure rate is also approximately 20% for single layer discs. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A SINGLE LAYER BD TO HOLD 200 GB! that would require 8 LAYERS. if they can't get 2 layers working, what do you think the odds of 8 layers are?

HD DVD is currently smoking blu-ray. a lot of you need to educate yourself by reading facts. audio/video enthusiasts are flocking to HD DVD right now. the toshiba HD-A1(which i own) is currently ranked as the number 10 selling dvd player. samsungs blu-ray player is not even in the top 100. HD DVD will have by far the most extensive(approx. 400) catalog of movies this year(compared to blu-ray approx. 200). Huge hits like batman begins, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, etc..

I feel bad for you Hoescout. You prance on this forum and call some an MS fanboy NOTING this a damn xbox forum (way to go genius)

and look at you!! "Blu-ray pwnz HD-DVD" Did you even listen to the damn interview?

Codecs are what can make or break sony or MS.

Apparently as of now HD-DVD is pwning Blu-ray because of codecs used if you didnt notice.

and another point Sony is using Mpeg2 codec because of the build and speed of the disc.

They have trouble Going to dual layer because of the build of the disc (if you listen to the Mjr Nelson interview they say blu-ray is built differently than dvd's

Where does hoescout use a racist remark? I hope you're not talking about the redneck remark lol.

It's nice to see that the board isn't completely full of ms fanboys, but you guys gotta admit major nelson is just doing his job. He has to be biased, unfortunately. Leave unbiased reviews to people not working for MS or Sony.

While Blue-Ray will probably have a larger installed base once the PS3 hits, HD-DVD's ease of manufacturing and lower costs will be its advantage.

In any case, I think it's stupid to say any one format is owning the other right now, and it also proves you're a fanboy. At least wait until the holiday season is over.

I'd suggest you to go and read at :

http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm

It's a quite interesting read... even more interesting than Major Nelson podcast...

What do you think?

interesting article there Mozbius. hd-dvd has a lot of advantages but the thing that will sell is what does the average consumer who knows nothing think the next format is. if you say hd-dvd and they reply, huh? or if you say bluray and they reply, "oh i've heard about that, it's supposed to be good". that is all it really takes right there. just like people who call playing almost any videogame "playing nintedo" or for the newer kids it's "playing playstation". there are a lot of people who don't understand technology but have money to spend on it, they think it's "cool" and, will listen to whatever the salesman (or friends) tell them regardless of visible differences (if any). word of mouth is more powerful than anything else in selling products, if people like you, you sell, if they don't, you don't. (look at ipod, what's so special about it that it deserves to slaughter the market like it does?)

Thanks for the link. It was a very interesting read. Well, the article is showing the HD-DVD is winning & IMO, I believe that HD-DVD will probably win the war espically since consumers are purchasing HD-DVD instead of Blu-ray.

Over at Amazon.com, the Samsung Blu-Ray player is in the #3,462 spot while the Toshiba HD-DVD player is in the #528, so this shows the more people are buying HD-DVD.

Just as the article says, Sony never learns. They still haven't learned from the Betamax flop.

You wan't to know something funny, one my favorite radio station, there was a radio ad from Tweeter & the ad was for Blu-Ray & they were trying to claim that Blu-Ray is better. It seemed like a funny ad considering that Tweeter is supposed to be for the high-end people.

Anybody wants a non bias opinion then here it is. I have No plans to buy the hd dvd add on nor do i care for the ps3 or blu ray. I just had to get that out in the open.

now I have been doing my research on these formats for a while and if anybody read the reviews on the net ( Click 4 Reviews )you would know that everything in that major nelson podcast is entirely accurate. Sony has rushed BD to market and at the moment the quality is at times less than dvd. Currently HD DVD is superior in every way possible. I think the reason for this though is because HD DVD is just at a more advanced stage, thats all. I think BD has alot of potential but we are not even close to seeing it and thats a huge disadvantage for them. The question is can BD catch up?

After reading the article at http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm I must say that I doubt that BD will catch up... I mean most consumers are interested by what they can have now and not what they could have later (I believe that kinda explains a little why Xbox360 didn't sell more since there's no MOST HAVE KILLER apps currently available eventhough it's clear that future generation of 360 software will blow our mind).

Considering that consumers can currently have better quality for almost half the price of a competitive format (and that is without even considering all the other advantages of HD DVD) how can Blue Ray catch up?

The only way that I can see that happen is if Blue Ray sold for less than HD DVD and have better quality than HD DVD at the same time. But then again after having read the article at http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm I don't really see how can this really happen either...

well, excuse me but HD-DVD most probaly sounds way more familiar than bluray. in any language, not only english, that is.

all this hd-dvd vs blu-ray war is garbage. For those informed, would know that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray uses similar, to the same codecs, of all the places that I've researched they've said that its up to the STUDIOS to encode in a specific format. Now for some odd reason, HDDVD studios have opted to use VC1 but BluRay studios opted to use MPEG2. Obviously a mistake, but one that it can fix.

Lets see, why oh why are they comparing HD-DVD dual-layer (in which its discs aren't released yet) to Blu-Ray single layer? This makes no sense. Oh mines bigger than yours!! (but we forgot to tell you that we needed 2 layers) This is ridiculous because Sony's dual-layer is 50gb and thier 4 layer disc in development is 200gbs. No matter what HDDVD comes up with, Sony's is bigger.

"First of all, due to their complicated manufacturing needs, the production yield rates for single-layer 25 gb Blu-ray discs have been rather poor, and dual-layer 50 gb discs apparently have such a high failure rate that so far no titles have been released in that configuration. On the other hand, while HD DVD only offers 15 gb capacity per disc layer, the majority of that format's releases have been on dual-layer 30 gb discs. What this means is that, up to this point, HD DVD has in fact offered higher storage capacity."

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/index.php?p=1579

It's still an unfair comparison. Lets wait until Blu-Ray comes out with their Dual-Layer and then we'll compare dual-layers.

Next, how do they KNOW that there's 2 layers to a movie release? There are no burners/readers........

edit:

I've checked out some HD-DVD covers and most of them are combo discs, combo discs are dual-SIDED, not dual-LAYERED. Also for those that are not, whats to say that including 480p/i standard definition isnt part of the initial 15gb single layer?

When making comparisons you should use all the same criteria, including point in time. It would be unfair to compare VHS to Blu-ray as the technologies were released at different points in time. We could wait for dual layer blu-ray, however by that time triple layer HD-DVD may be out. Right now the best technology available technology in terms of storage capacity is HD-DVD. However I also think that 25 gigs on a single layer Blu-ray disc is enough capacity to deliver most movies in high def, although you need to use the correct compression algorithm. I think that more may be required to deliver titles like Lord of the Rings.

You can clearly see from the wikipedia article that nearly all releases are dual layer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

You can also check on www.thedigitalbits.com to see the format codes that the movie studios use. I guess it is possible that the movie studios are lieing, however I think that this is unlikely.