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Heretic-666
Full story: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153547

QUOTE
Originally Posted by 1up View Post
Microsoft's Xbox Live has existed since 2002. How will Sony, who has never had a dedicated and successful online program in the console space -- the PS2's online was a total free for all -- compete with Microsoft's nearly four-year lead in the online console gaming service sphere?

They'll use Xfire, that's how (the image to the right is a mock-up).

By incorporating an existing service into their own PlayStation Network Platform (PNP), Sony hopes to circumvent existing problems in the console space that Microsoft has had to sort out and in using Xfire -- a company with an established messaging, matchmaking and gaming client -- Sony hopes to narrow the four-year gap in online gaming services that Microsoft currently enjoys (Xfire has been around since 2002).

In a transcript of Viacom's Q2 earning's report conference call a deal between Sony and Xfire was revealed:

Importantly, Xfire just signed a deal with Sony to create a version of their platform for the new PS3, which will now enable Xfire to extend its reach further into the huge console gaming market.
Although Sony and Xfire offered no further comments or details about the PS3 and Xfire connection, neither company would deny it.

Testing of the Xfire client for PS3 appears to already be underway, with PS3-exclusive launch title Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom appearing in the supported software list on the PC Xfire client's .ini file.

Months ago, Sony's Computer Entertainment chief Ken Kutaragi indicated that PS3's online service would likely be free:

We don't charge for the basic functions of the network like matching services. Things like that are taken for granted on a PC, aren't they? There's the feeling of why a game console gets to charge for a service that's normal on a PC. So, we just made the basic services available, and based our business on the contents.
How will Xfire function on PS3? Details are sparse, but it's a safe bet that the features offered on Xfire's PC implementation will carry over to the PS3 version of the software.

Friend Tracker
Like Xbox Live allows users to manage their Friend's lists, Xfire also allows users to track friends, seeing what they are playing and what they have been playing (and for how long).

One-Click Join
Similar to how Xbox Live allows users to click on their name and 'Join' the game if it's available, Xfire lets users do the same thing. If a friend is playing a game you want to, there's no need to input your IP address or server information, Xfire takes care of it for you. Safe to assume that the PS3 implementation of Xfire will only be the touch of a button (an 'X' perhaps) away from joining users from your Friend Tracker.

Server Browser
This feature allows users to see the variety of servers available for different games. The most useful part here, is the ability to sort between favorite maps, or your friend's favorite maps and gametypes. Will we be able to sort out Resistance: Fall of Man gametypes based on which servers are hosting our favorite map?

Xfire In-Game (IM While You Play) with Voice Chat
Obviously, in-game IM would be a bit more utilitarian on a PC, where all users have a keyboard, but Xfire's PS3 implementation may see use of a keyboard (the open-ended online platform is ripe for MMO development). Without a keyboard, Xfire and PS3 will provide a way of their own to communicate with users (perhaps entering letters via the controller like on Xbox Live). In addition to text communication, Xfire supports voice chat -- expect a version of voice chat to be included in whatever PS3 plans for online.

File & Patch Downloads
When there's an update for a game on Xbox Live, Microsoft automatically detects it when the game is booted up and prompts users to snag the download. Optional downloads (like marketplace transactions) are shown on the marketplace, will Xfire's file/patch download systems be a gateway to whatever form of marketplace Sony conjures up?

Profiles with Automatic Stats
Xfire exports an .xml feed of your stats (what games you play, how long you play them for) -- just like Xbox Live. Via the official site: "They're (the stats) on your profile and Miniprofile, which can be embedded anywhere on the web."

In addition to partnering with a software client that could potentially offer much of the functionality of Xbox Live, Sony's Xfire-powered PNP also serves as a second coup -- it strikes at the unified front Microsoft hopes to create with its Live Anywhere initiative. That program, the synergizing of Xbox Live and PC gamers, is something Sony could replicate if the PS3's version of Xfire interacts with the PC version of the program. But, will the games play together? And if PS3 and PC gamers can play together and Xbox 360 and PC gamers can play together, does cross platform gaming become even more of a reality?



That enough to challenge xbox live tongue.gif

cr4ck3rj4ck
I bet it wont be free in the end. Sony makes a habit of changing their original statements
nickthegreat
yup - if the servers are maintained by publishers then they will charge users, not sony. so yeah, free matchmaking, but nothing has been stated about free network play. so far it seems to have been left @ the discretion of the publishers.
twistedsymphony
VERY interesting...

This could easily go the way of great success or horrible failure, but I think overall it improves Sony's online presence.

Buying a 3rd party solution is a quick and dirty way to add a whole lot of features fast, the biggest stumbling block is leveraging that system to work for your specific needs. Basically they need to make sure it integrates seamlessly with the console as opposed to some tacked on port of PC software... you need to be able to navigate through the menu's easily with a controller (where the PC version you'd use a mouse), make sure it works with the entitlement system, make sure it can handle more then one account at a time (remember PCs are only ever built for one player per machine), making sure the menus and other text are easy to read at SD as well as HD resolutions and 4:3 as well as 16:9 aspect ratios...

There are lots and lots and lots of little details that need to be worked out. As someone who work on integrating 3rd party software on a daily basis I can tell you that upper management LOVES this type of stuff because they can make one clean purchase and +10 to their feature list... they often don't realize that these solutions can still take a lot of massaging to make seamless and flow well with what's existing already.

As I said, this could make for a great success or a horrible failure. Here's hoping Sony is (and has been) giving this partnership the attention required to make it work in their favor. At very least I give kudos for them finally realizing that they can't make software to save their lives. laugh.gif

The article seems to be mostly speculatory based on XFire's existing PC service (which is fine) but it still leaves question as to how it will handle things like leaderboards, entitlements, True Ranking, Gamerscore, reputation, and player feedback. All things that Xfire currently doesn't handle, but Sony has claimed to be handling with their upcoming service to combat Xbox Live.

I'm also curious to know how XFire benefits in this... where are they getting their $$? They said that they don't charge for features that are normally free on a PC but get their profits from their "content" but exactly what are they delivering for content?
incognegro
huh? blink.gif

I thought xfire was just a IM client for games on ur pc.....whatever.
Heretic-666
QUOTE(incognegro @ Sep 12 2006, 08:20 PM) *

huh? blink.gif

I thought xfire was just a IM client for games on ur pc.....whatever.



Its like a more feature rich version of Allseeingeye is basically how i see it. Its obvious no matter what good news comes out someone will pull something out of there butt to rebuke it. This is great news it doesn't matter if its built from scratch or bought, if it works it works don't really care.
gasclown
although it seems an afterthought (rather than a design foundation like ms's live) its probably a good thing for ps3ers. Because, with the exception of motorola, sony make the worst software in the world. fingers crossed the service wont be utter crap.
Storm28
Does X-fire use advertising for its revenue stream?

Since Sony is talking about 10 year lifecycles for their consoles, this agreement would likely be long term. Either Sony is dumping alot of money (that they don't have) on them, or they'll need to charge a fee, or probably worse, allow X-fire to advertise. Can you imagine having to see ads on a $600 console?
redwolf
are they trying to compete with Xbox LIVE or XLink Kai laugh.gif
Heretic-666
QUOTE(redwolf @ Sep 12 2006, 09:33 PM) *

are they trying to compete with Xbox LIVE or XLink Kai laugh.gif



thats a compliment to sony.
Mr Invader
Didn't the PS2 use gamespy to run their online games?

And now the PS3 is gonna use Xfire...

I'll bet the qualirty of service will be the same.
blame canada
Anyone else tired of the PS3 bullshit? Seems like every week, 5 more things about how the PS3 is gonna become superirior, and compete with the 360/Wii. Ok, here's an idea of what I think sony meetings are like:

*PS3 meeting* "Ok lets see, uhm, what should we bullshit our way out of today... hrm, oh lets see, oh remember that HDMI cable? Yea, how about we tell everyone that we won't ship with one. Oh and how about tommorow we say something like, Oh! got it, we annouce we will be better than xbox 360 with online service! Yeah, that outta keep people busy while we work on getting these damn PS3's out to our game developers." CEO of sony, "What PS3's? blink.gif "

Anyone else think the same?
incognegro
Although im sure we are all starving for some good news from sony's camp...this is ok but not really that impressive. I still don't understand how online gaming is gonna be free. if they can give me a good explanation for that then ill be happy. Wake me up when sony gets a clue....
Deftech
People, EVEN IF they say its Free, chances are that will change b4 the system launches, everything else has for poops sake tongue.gif
Deftech
LOL, who woulda thunk it...

Posted today kids...

Source
QUOTE

Sony has been quick to quash rumours that the PlayStation 3 will incorporate a version of PC messaging and matchmaking solution Xfire for online gameplay.

While the company has admitted that one launch title - SOE's Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom - will utilise Xfire, there are no current plans to use the Viacom-owned technology.


Read the rest at the link provided above pop.gif
KAGE360
QUOTE(Deftech @ Sep 13 2006, 10:20 AM) *

LOL, who woulda thunk it...

Posted today kids...

Source
Read the rest at the link provided above pop.gif


well this brings up a question. sony has said that their online network would include all that LIVE has (gamertags, friends list, invites, messaging, entitlements, and more) now if their online gaming service really includes all of these features, then why does untold legends need this software??

something is up, as always, and i see sony dissapointing with the online again.
incognegro
QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Sep 13 2006, 04:04 PM) *

well this brings up a question. sony has said that their online network would include all that LIVE has (gamertags, friends list, invites, messaging, entitlements, and more) now if their online gaming service really includes all of these features, then why does untold legends need this software??

something is up, as always, and i see sony dissapointing with the online again.


Thats the first damn thing I thought! I knew something was fishy about this xFire deal (hence my first post).
Mr Invader
There will be NO XFIRE for the Playstation online network...

QUOTE
Yesterday we reported on Sony's potential use of Xfire as a component of their Playstation Network Platform (aka the PS3's answer to Xbox Live). The news was reported by many outlets, including our parent-site, Joystiq. This morning Joystiq posted the following update:

"Sony Online Entertainment has contacted 1UP and clarified that the Xfire technology was only being evaluated for the PS3 launch title, Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom. 'This proposed deal is completely separate and independent from the PlayStation Network Platform, and is something that SOE was examining specifically for Dark Kingdom.' It seems we're back to square one."

As it turns out, we may not actually be back to square one. But, first, this response from Sony raises many interesting questions:

Why is Sony experimenting with any facet of their online approach so late in the game?
Does the response imply that games/developers can do what they want from an online perspective, without a consistent and standardized experience?
If Sony's own proprietary stuff is so great, why have the trial with Xfire in the first place?
We'll we might be able to shed some light on at least that last question: It appears that Sony may not have a fully proprietary online platform (at least not yet). While they may not be using Xfire as an integral component of their overall strategy, we understand that they are using a number of 3rd parties to pull the Playstation Network Platform together. We received this note following our original story:

"Per your Xfire post, there are many network middleware providers partnered with Sony on the PNP. These are third parties that they use to supplement their in-house online solutions. This includes the likes of Gamespy and several others. To clarify the Internet gossip a bit, the Xfire story does not mean that Sony has outsourced their online platform to a single vendor. They are just one of the bunch. Sony continues to develop funtionality and their own Xfire-like capabilities while not trying to reinvent the wheel. Several PS3 titles use Gamespy, for example, to do their matchmaking already."


http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2006/09/13/xfire-...but-gamespy-is/

This is gay

They need to make up their minds about whats happening on the PS3
calderra
"Several PS3 titles use Gamespy"
^There it is, folks. Sony doesn't have an online solution- period. Untold Legends has to use XFire, other titles are on Gamespy, and....

"there are many network middleware providers"
^From the horse's mouth. Sony doesn't have unified online. Or at least it didn't early enough in development for... well... anyone to use it. Which means companies have probably already signed contracts and extended deals to bring online to their games. Which means that even if/when a unified network hits, things will still be a patchwork mess.

"(Xfire is) just one of the bunch"
^So what'll we see at launch, a half-dozen piecewise solutions? How will players be able to chat and meet up across networks? What about Xbox-Live style gamertags (when there's no single system to host them on)?

blink.gif

Can Sony really be THIS full of BS?
Again?
...er, today?
....again?
lex_luther23
This is going to be lame sounds like ps2 network all over again. dry.gif
KAGE360
QUOTE(lex_luther23 @ Sep 14 2006, 03:16 AM) *

This is going to be lame sounds like ps2 network all over again. dry.gif


well it should, sony announced at E305 that their online strategy was going to be like the ps2's. it was only a couple of months ago that they announced features similar to LIVE
STICKY_BUD
i think we can assume that xlink-kai will work with ps3. i guess it probably wont be able to install it within the dashboard, but there are still plenty of other ways to use the second best online gaming platform in the world. of course, i plan on sticking with my xbox live gold account until... well for quite awhile actually!
twistedsymphony
QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Sep 13 2006, 09:01 PM) *

...
They need to make up their minds about whats happening on the PS3

I think they have...

from what I gather

Playstation Network = Xbox Live Silver

So the PSN supports profiles, "entitlements", messaging, voice chat, etc. "feature for feature" Xbox Live (silver)

Sony doesn't offer any "Gold" level service... that is left up to the developers themselves who can then choose to use Gamespy, XFire, etc. etc. etc. It also means they can charge whatever they want on a game by game basis.

IMO this means that most PS3 games WONT support online multi player (because publishers wont want to front the cash to run the servers) the games that do support online multi player will either have a monthly fee or lackluster support (just like the PS2).

Of course this is smart MARKETING move on Sony's part because "Playstation Network is free" but they conveniently leave out the part about not offering online multi player themselves and many that play the games where the publisher is footing the server bill will assume that they're really playing on the Playstation Network.
incognegro
QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 14 2006, 07:14 PM) *

I think they have...

from what I gather

Playstation Network = Xbox Live Silver

So the PSN supports profiles, "entitlements", messaging, voice chat, etc. "feature for feature" Xbox Live (silver)

Sony doesn't offer any "Gold" level service... that is left up to the developers themselves who can then choose to use Gamespy, XFire, etc. etc. etc. It also means they can charge whatever they want on a game by game basis.

IMO this means that most PS3 games WONT support online multi player (because publishers wont want to front the cash to run the servers) the games that do support online multi player will either have a monthly fee or lackluster support (just like the PS2).

Of course this is smart MARKETING move on Sony's part because "Playstation Network is free" but they conveniently leave out the part about not offering online multi player themselves and many that play the games where the publisher is footing the server bill will assume that they're really playing on the Playstation Network.


No twisted, we've been through this before. Remember when Major Nelson brought up that same point during e3 after observing sony's slides during their presentation. Then rumors were flaring about "Playstation Network = Xbox Live Silver" so sony had to say something, and I dont remember who (probably ken) clarified that gaming will be free. So they can further confuse us tongue.gif

I think there still isnt any clarification on what sony is doing but one thing is for sure, when we do find out its gonna be VERY controversial tongue.gif
calderra
The problem with PSN=Silver is... this "new" information on a piecewise solution.

-How do you have Achievements (er, Entitlements) when nobody's using the same dialler to get online? (XFire, Gamespy, and others)
-How do you chat in realtime when everyone is using completely different methods of connection?
-How do you have Game Invites across these vastly different networks?

The short answer is that you don't. The longer answer is that you might build a database that everyone has to access to pull information from (like most instant messengers), but even then, you're up to the mercy of your individual connection program for how accesible the features are and how usable it all is (ICQ vs AIM vs Messenger vs IRC vs...).

There are other vast problems with this solution. First and foremost- hacking. Tons of different security protocols, not all of them terribly secure (statistically), and your network's open. This might make it possible for GameShark-like methods to do random things like pull up free Entitlements, for starters. Naked pictures for Gamer Profiles? You betcha. And from there, who knows?

If Xbox Live found such a vulnerability, the service would require an update on connection to solve the problem. Sony's platform would... well, you can't really force updates on third parties like that. Er, you could, but getting them to adopt it uniformly would be a challenge.

Etc, etc, etc.
Unless the PSN just isnt' going to be ready for launch and the devs are scrambling to get connected, there are BIG problems in the works. (As in: If all second-gen titles were on the network, but first gen weren't). However, this seems unlikely.

And even IF it happened, what if some developers don't like the network platform Sony delivers? What if they've already signed exclusive deals with Gamespy and XFire? Even when the network is up and running, most devs might go for their own custom solutions. Cheaper devs would use cheap solution to minimize cost (not chat, no gamer profiles, just gaming). Bigger devs would deliver more content (a la MMORPGs- updates, content downloads, all from the game's inner workings).

Bottom line: The Playstation network is full of holes. The question lies in how big those holes are.
twistedsymphony
QUOTE(calderra @ Sep 15 2006, 08:09 AM) *

The problem with PSN=Silver is... this "new" information on a piecewise solution.

-How do you have Achievements (er, Entitlements) when nobody's using the same dialler to get online? (XFire, Gamespy, and others)
-How do you chat in realtime when everyone is using completely different methods of connection?
-How do you have Game Invites across these vastly different networks?

The short answer is that you don't. The longer answer is that you might build a database that everyone has to access to pull information from (like most instant messengers), but even then, you're up to the mercy of your individual connection program for how accesible the features are and how usable it all is (ICQ vs AIM vs Messenger vs IRC vs...)....


I don't think either of your answers are correct... nothing says you can't connect to more then one service at the same time, as long as they're not trying to do the same thing... Sony's PSN will probably run on Sony's own server for things like entitlements, chat, etc. and then the console would just connect to a different set of servers for gameplay.

It would work exactly like FFXI does on the 360... when you connect to the PlayOnline servers (since it doesn't use Xbox Live) you remain connected to Xbox Live as well for things like voice chat, messaging, achievements, etc. etc. etc. Similarly all EA games connect to EA servers as opposed to Xbox Live... to the gamer they think they're playing on Xbox Live, despite the fact that they're not... Sony could do the same thing and no one would be the wiser.

I'm not saying Sony wont have servers... if they so much as offer one bullet item on their list they will have to, but nothing says they can't just let publishers provide their own servers to host the actual games and use the Sony servers to host the resulting stats and everything else.
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