I don't think this is a black issue, more of a poverty issue. If you look at gettos and slums around the world, there's always the same code of silence.

That article stated an example of a serial killer living next door to you. When your poor you can't move, and if you report it there's a good chance you'll get shot.

When your poor, you have a sense of helplessness, that leads you to distrust police. You hear more stories of people getting killed than you hear of police solving a crime. The police are viewed as inept, and it's pointless to help them.

The "don't be a snitch" is more a safety measure than an attitude. Why take the risk?

The favelas in Rio de Janeiro, are so bad, that the army is afraid to go in there. The drug lords control the land and vigilante justice rules. The people that live there would never talk to the police. They would be dead by the end of the day. The poor are desperate and they have no choice but to tolerate it.
As for the hip-hop community. Rappers have always talked about what they see and hear and "told it how it is." Unfortunately, now that rap has become more main-stream, there's more rappers who originated from the suburbs instead of the getto, who need to build their "street cred". Jumping on any band wagon they can, they jump on the snitch angle just like any other.

It's the listeners(middle class suburb rap fans) who proliferate the need for street cred and it's the rappers who need to compensate for a lack of talent.

The black rappers portray the 'Pol-lease' as a bunch of people who betray the black folks. Perhaps before the segregation, 'jim crow' days, that would be true.

Today, the media gave such leadway to black people that they believe a drugged up black stripper rather than 3 White Duke Students.

As the issue with Don Imus, the only black activists blame on Whites like Don for putting them down. These black folks marched in front NBC and CBS buildings and demanded that Don Imus be removed, and they did. Why not these black activists go to places like Warner Bros headquarters and demand that they remove Asylum Records to shut down because that music have a negative influence on black people.

Wal-Mart' date='Apr 23 2007, 10:35 PM' post='3970561']
I know that not to be true. The attitude of trying to understand it is what is perpetuating it. People who do not participate or contribute to society should be driven out of it instead of special provisions being made for them. If they want to function as their own society, then let them. You cannot make them a part of yours.

Edit: I re-read the topic and realized that if you thought I was speaking of black people specifically that my post would come off as extremely racist. Please understand that I have no race in mind. I am speaking of people who refuse to acknowledge society and it's rules and feel like everyone owes them.

You're a true-blue republican, that's for sure
Should people who do not "contribute" to society be driven out? The definition of "not contributing" in itself would be quite interesting to know about.
There are reasons everything happens to people. Gang-members would most likely not even be criminal had they been born in a "better area". I know of adopted people that are more "Swedish" than I'd ever be, the only difference is their skin-colour.
Despite having much smaller problems with gangs in my country than others, they still exist, but it's mainly because they've grouped themselves together in suburbs, and politically we've unfortunately allowed it. Even though they're given a lot of money in welfare, they still see the rich Swedes as aliens to them because they're not integrated enough with us. Separating people from another has always been means for racism. So if one look at the bigger picture it's obvious that trying to drive people out that don't "fit" in society, is just ways to increase the problems.

So what's the solution? Proper integration. What's encapsulated in that is harder to understand, but I don't think e.g. welfare money in itself should have a too big part of it.
So one way or the other they have to get integrated with each other. But the white people don't want them in their society, because all they "think" they know of them is that they cause problems, so it's like a catch 22-problem.

It's very easy for us being born in rich white families to say that immigrants or other minorities are only problems, and we believe they don't want to work either as they've chosen criminality instead. But what if they were "forced" into criminality? My adopted friends are all proper and work, simply because they've come to a healthy society that immediately accepted them as any other Swede.

People become bad because of a reason. Take away that reason, however hard it may be, and they'll be "contributing" to society. As humanity will hopefully live on for thousands of years, there's no reason to continue separating people.

So what's the solution? Proper integration.

The "don't be a snitch" is more a safety measure than an attitude. Why take the risk?

Wal-Mart' date='Apr 25 2007, 04:58 PM' post='3972346']
You can say I'm a Republican all day long... and if by your definition that means logical and a realist then so-be-it. There is no such thing as being "forced" into criminality. Sure people are born with different opportunities, but that's the beauty of America at least. No matter where you come from, if you TRY you can pretty much do whatever you want. That's just it, if you're lazy and don't want to do anything with yourself then you'll either sell drugs or steal. Why should we integrate these worthless people any more into our society? They alienated themselves! Nobody said just because you're poor you have to be a criminal. That means get out there and work hard. I know this because I am one of those people. I have never had anything given to me. Yes there are people worse off than me, and no I'm not the hardest worker, but I have made it so far. Everyone else can too. It's people like you who always want to "understand" why people do evil things and try to make exception for them. It is OBVIOUS that you are a bleeding-heart liberal. Sometimes that's a great thing. In the cases we've discussed here recently it is not. It's never good to look for why a psychopath massacred a bunch of people nor is it a good idea to try to rationalize why criminals choose crime. I can explain it to you. They don't want to take the narrow path. They want to take easy street. If we as society do not give breaks and help these worthless people, then they will either have to stand on their own two feet and contribute to society or they will die. Either way we're better off.

Edit: I just noticed you wanted my definition of "contribute". Well that means you give more than you take. So that rules out these social parasites that we are talking about that leech off of society. It's really a cut-and-dry explanation.
I like you... and I LOVED this sentence "
People become bad because of a reason. Take away that reason, however hard it may be, and they'll be "contributing" to society."
I agree totally. That reason is because WE LET THEM!. If we don't allow for it in our society through giving only EARNED welfare, and strict drug testing for employment, and rewarding members of society who are trying their hardest (even if they are not succeeding) and not always looking for reasons why people are evil and simply shunning them then they will no longer be able to be evil. They will sink or swim. Unfortunately the bleeding-heart liberals will say "oh we can't do that". "It's our fault these people are bad and we need to look for the reason." People have been saying that forever. The PROBLEM is we let them do these things. We tolerate it. Stop tolerating it and it will stop the problem.

Sure, no one is rarely forced into criminality by definition, but if you're born in the hood, everywhere you turn you'll see poor black people around you and the white people you occasionally get to see are rich and alienated from you. So, among other things, I suppose there's a lot of envy towards the white man, which results in racism.
And the gang-members want to grab the kids early on, so in that sense I believe it's often hard not to choose that path when everything you're surrounded by is hatred towards white people. One can easily say it's up to them not to get into that path, but I believe we're extremely affected by our surroundings. White people simply have a lot of unfair advantages at birth, the strength comes in black people that proves it's possible to get to the top despite everything. They're all true icons for the rest of the black community. But so far there's too many hinders for the general black man to get out of the ghetto.

My best bet to get integration to work would be in kindergarten and ground school. Where it's possible I think kindergartens should be forced to have some rule of "every other race"-principle, even though that means longer trips for some. Kids are not prejudice, and I'm absolutely positive they'll get along fine over the races, and early on realize we're all the same.

When it comes to welfare money I think the whole concept of it has to be dramatically redesigned. There's an idiom in my language that says "to do someone a bear-favour", meaning you think you do someone a favour, but that favour is actually counter-productive. We give foreigners way too much in welfare, and since you can comfortably live on that welfare they simply choose not to work. I think welfare is important to foreigners, but we must encourage and help them to work. But the solution isn't only to cut it a bit, even though it's a part of it.

In my opinion it's very important to try and analyse why things happen, how could one otherwise come up with a solution? I'm generally not a believer in drastic changes, as they rarely solve anything than for the time being, therefore it's important to analyse as much as possible to solve things in the long run.

And btw, I agree that too many liberals (which I'd probably be if I were an American) often don't rationalise the side-effects certain political ideas can have. Though, the same goes for too "logical" conservatives.

Damam: I was quite sure liberals were pro integration, and conservatives were con, weird Scary, maybe I'm more similar to you than I'd ever think... Well, if I'm a conservative now I'm in great need of that

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

You heard of the stories about crime ridden poor black communities are so crime ridden in the first place? They blame on the city, state, white people for the problem and everybody else but themselves. Think 'stop snitchin' as in stop working with the police to get rid of the bad people in their own backyard. This 'stop snitchin' attitude is so bad they black artists glorifing this idea in songs and videos about it as snitching 'hurts' their business.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

People like Tupac and Notorious BIG got gunned down yet nobody got convicted. There must be a lot people who witnessed the crime yet nobody stepped foward because of it. That's why many poor black communities are always the anchor in America's society.

Couey occupied a trailer along with two women, 100 yards away, at the time of Lunsford's abduction.[2] In a videotaped and recorded deposition which later was thrown out by his Florida trial court (see below), he admitted to sexually assaulting Lunsford in his bedroom.[3] The admission stated that she was kept in his bed that evening, where he raped her again in the morning. It further stated that Couey put her in his closet and ordered her to remain there, which she did as he reported for work at "Billy's Truck Lot".[1] Lastly, the admission recounted that three days after he abducted her, Couey bound the child's wrists together with speaker wire, placed her in a garbage bag, placed the bag containing her inside another garbage bag and buried her alive in a shallow grave, where she suffocated to death.

Privately, however, some investigators involved in the case said they do not believe his story, because he has admitted to smoking crack cocaine during the time he held Jessica Lunsford, who lived near the mobile home he shared with his sister and others in Homosassa Springs, a town in central Florida.

Poor black communities arent really any different than poor white ones. Except maybe the poor whites looking for crack cocaine frequent the black communities and the opposite isnt as prevalent given negroes generally dont prefer methamphetamines.

Tupac Shakur and BIG probably make more money than: me. you, your mom, your dad and everyone elses that has read this thread. To compare in particular these two who wear $ 200 boxers to Joe Blow Negro is somewhat illogical.

Dont you think???

Source
Source

Should we blame this on Kid Rock or maybe Marshall Mathers, given no one "snitched" This guy was only suspected after it was found out he was sex offender.
While the two other occupants of the trailer turned a deaf ear while he raped and tortured this little girl.

Well, I'm sure most people would less likely to snitch their brother than some stranger.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

You heard of the stories about crime ridden poor black communities are so crime ridden in the first place? They blame on the city, state, white people for the problem and everybody else but themselves. Think 'stop snitchin' as in stop working with the police to get rid of the bad people in their own backyard. This 'stop snitchin' attitude is so bad they black artists glorifing this idea in songs and videos about it as snitching 'hurts' their business.

People like Tupac and Notorious BIG got gunned down yet nobody got convicted. There must be a lot people who witnessed the crime yet nobody stepped foward because of it. That's why many poor black communities are always the anchor in America's society.

BOLINGBROOK, Illinois (CNN) -- The disappearance of a suburban Chicago police
sergeant's wife is now being treated as a potential homicide, and her husband is a suspect, authorities said Friday.

In another development, a judge signed an order to exhume the body of Drew Peterson's
third wife, who was found drowned in a bathtub in 2004, said Will County State Attorney James Glasgow.

"She told me all the time, 'He's gonna kill me. It's gonna look like an accident,' " Doman said.

Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (b. August 6, 1987 in Arnhem, Netherlands) is a Dutch college student who lived in Aruba. He was held in the Aruba prison for three months on suspicion of involvement in the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005. However, he was not, and has not been, charged with any offense.

Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, were arrested on suspicion of involvement in manslaughter and causing seriously bodily harm that caused the death of the 18-year-old American, the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Van der Sloot was arrested in the Netherlands, where he is attending a university, and is expected to be extradited to this Dutch Caribbean island. The Kalpoe brothers were arrested in Aruba.

On September 23, 1988, Schaefer met Ignatow to return some jewelry of his that she had in her possession. Instead, Ignatow took Schaefer to Shore's house, where he pulled a gun on Brenda and locked her in the house. Brenda was blindfolded, gagged and bound hand and foot.

Ignatow forced Brenda to strip, photographed her in suggestive positions, raped, sodomized and beat her before killing her with chloroform. Ignatow and Shore buried her behind Shore's house. He took Brenda's jewelery and the exposed film.

The case was controversial because Ignatow was acquitted of the charge, but photographs that proved his guilt were uncovered after the trial. Under the legal principle of double jeopardy, however, Ignatow could not be tried a second time for the murder.

Star pitcher Roger Clemens was the biggest name implicated in Mitchell's 409- page report, with information provided by Brian McNamee, the personal trainer Clemens brought to the New York Yankees in 2000. Clemens' attorney said in a statement that Clemens was "slandered" in the report, which asserted that McNamee injected Clemens with Winstrol, a steroid-based substance, in 1998 when both were with the Toronto Blue Jays, and other now-banned substances. A year after his trade to the Yankees, Clemens urged them to hire Mc- Namee as assistant strength and conditioning coach.

Blacks, as a community will continue to suffer so long as they continue to refuse any semblance of self reflection. They, as a community, prop up and provide support for people that they should cast aside. Examples are easy to find, the Jeana 6 (sp), Marion Barry, Rodney King, and many others. When a prominent black person becomes enlightened and speaks in support of what I am suggesting they get attacked by the black community. The black community needs to stop blaming others for their lot in life and begin to support those black leaders that recognize this. Being black carries no genetic marker of failure or violence or anything else, it is the attitude of the community that breeds failure.

But it is only human nature that brings this out. When you're handed a bad lot, and you see others with good and you can't understand why you can't break out (change is very difficult, as well), your natural reaction is to feel cast aside and unwelcome in a sense, and bitterness naturally develops as a result.

Blacks, as a community will continue to suffer so long as they continue to refuse any semblance of self reflection. They, as a community, prop up and provide support for people that they should cast aside. Examples are easy to find, the Jeana 6 (sp), Marion Barry, Rodney King, and many others.

They, as a community, prop up and provide support for people that they should cast aside. Examples are easy to find, the Jeana 6 (sp), Marion Barry, Rodney King, and many others. When a prominent black person becomes enlightened and speaks in support of what I am suggesting they get attacked by the black community.

The black community needs to stop blaming others for their lot in life and begin to support those black leaders that recognize this

GALVESTON, Texas — An autopsy has found that a 3-month-old baby boy was murdered before being thrown

onto a Galveston roadside, still strapped into his car seat.

The infant's death was ruled a homicide by blunt force head trauma, said John Florence, chief investigator for the

Galveston County Medical Examiner's Office.

Police in Texas have identified the biological father of the baby, the last person known to be with the child, and

are calling him a person of interest in the infant’s death, according to MyFoxHouston.

A search was under way for Travis Mullis, 21, after an Alvin woman, whose name hasn't been released, tentatively

identified the body as that of her son. She contacted police on Tuesday, saying she hadn't seen her son since Mullis

took him that morning.

A couple who were bird-watching discovered the baby’s body Tuesday afternoon after first mistaking it for a doll.

The couple believed to be the baby's parents had argued the night before the infant was killed, police said

Wednesday.

Galveston Police spokesman Lt. Jorge Trevino said the couple had been fighting Monday night in their home in Alvin,

about 30 miles northwest of Galveston.

The fate of the FLDS children, 416 of them, taken from a Texas polygamist compound has been decided, at least temporarily. A Texas judge ruled that all 416 children will remain in state custody and will be subject to DNA testing. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks.

Now, the news tonight, 33-year-old Rosita Swinton just arrested in Colorado for filing a false police report, pretending to be an abused girl locked in a basement. But it gets even more bizarre. Who else has Swinton been calling? Well, Swinton has many, many times called Flora Jessop, a former FLDS church member who now runs a rescue mission for teen girls trying to escape..

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas officials told legislators Wednesday that they’re investigating the possible sexual abuse of some young boys taken from a polygamist sect’s ranch, as well as broken bones among other children.

The disclosures are the first suggestions that anyone other than teenage girls may have been sexually or physically abused at the ranch run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect.

In written and oral testimony provided to lawmakers Wednesday, officials with the state Department of Family and Protective Services said interviews and journal entries suggested that boys may have been sexually abused.

Earlier, the department’s commissioner, Carey Cockerell, told lawmakers that at least 41 children, some of them ‘‘very young,’’ have evidence of broken bones. The state has custody of 464 children from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in the west Texas prairie town of Eldorado, including a baby born to a teen mother Tuesday.

BURLINGTON, Vermont The body of a 12-year-old Vermont girl, whose disappearance touched off Vermont's first ever Amber Alert last week, was found by searchers near the home of her uncle, with whom she was last seen alive. Vermont State Police Col. James Baker said the death of Brooke Bennett was "clearly suspicious" and foul play was indicated.

"The painful discovery of Brooke's body today is tragic and heartbreaking," Col. Baker said at a news conference after the discovery of her body around 4:45 p.m. Wednesday.

Brooke was last seen alive in public with her uncle, Michael Jacques, 42, at a convenience store a week ago. Jacques has been under arrest since last week on unrelated sex charges, police said. He is expected to be charged with kidnapping in federal court.

According to court records from U.S. District Court, a 14-year-old girl, who is also a relative of Jacques, told investigators that she helped Jacques (left) trick the 12-year-old Brooke Bennett to his house on June 25 to be initiated into a sex ring.

The girl told police that after they arrived at Jacques' home, she and Brooke watched television for a time, until

Jacques told her to leave. He then took Brooke upstairs. The girl said she and her boyfriend left the house and never saw Brooke again.

The same witness told authorities that she was initiated into the sex ring by Jacques when she was nine years old. She was told that she would be killed if she did not take part in the "sex training."

so you dont think the presence of a death threat constitutes any sort of mitigating circumstance to the lack of snitching in this case?

June 20, 2008: Casey Anthony, in blue, seen partying at club Fusion in Orlando during the time she said her

2-year-old daughter, Caylee, was missing.

Orlando, Fl The pictures, obtained by FOX News, show Casey Anthony smiling and posing with various

people at an Orlando club called Fusion. She later would tell police that her little girl, Caylee Marie Anthony, had

been missing since earlier in the month.

John Azzilano, the nightlife photographer who snapped the images, said Casey was enjoying herself.

"She seemed happy, as were most of the people there that night," Azzilano told FOX News. "She seemed all right,

having a good time, just like people our age would that night."

Casey Anthony remains in jail on charges of child neglect, making false official statements and obstructing a

criminal investigation.

She remains held on $500,000 bond and is a person of interest in the case but hasn't been charged in Caylee’s

disappearance — which prosecutors say looks like a homicide.

When Anthony and her family first reported Caylee missing on July 15, she told police the girl already had been gone

for a month. She also claimed that Caylee had been taken by a baby sitter, who also vanished.