The reality is alot of people are gonna be pissed off about this and its just going to increase the push toward new advances in hacked firmwares, and an even greater push toward homebrew content. Soon the 360 will greatly resemble the modded xbox1.

I know that microsoft makes all of this money off the sales of games and online content. But with many users banned, they may be getting them to pay for game...but how are they going to pay for online content ----> putting microsoft in the same position it was before (losing out on revinue). Not to mention its going to piss some of these modders off so much that they wont even buy games but will just continue to steal, play offline, and then spend their money elsewhere (ps3, wii, whatever).

So the end sum of banning modders from live is simple:
1) Modders may lose Live, but still dont buy games, and cant buy live content or pay subscription fees.
2)Microsoft loses even more money due to no live purchases or subscription purchases (from these individuals).
3) everyone is pissed off.

Total = Everyone loses!

Congrats!

You make a good point because any of the pirates werent paying for games anyway the only thing they would pay for is live and any marketplace content. And if the people that got banned but another console isnt that another loss for m$?
LOL i think i might actually get a wii or a ps3 now. But wait the online service on those two suck anyway so i think i still like my 360 better lol

MS is banking on the popularity of their Live service to make them winners here. They think its so great that those who got banned will go out and buy another console and purchase their fav. games legit just so they can keep using the Live service. Not only will this make their numbers look loads better compared to the other consoles, but they will make more $$ from the legit purchased games.
If MS is wrong, then all those banned will continue to copy games to play offline and spend their money on a wii or ps3 instead.
I have a feeling MS will come out on top as there really is no other competition to Live right now. I hope that is proven wrong and everyone decides to stick it to MS and NOT buy another console just to get back on Live and give MS even more money.

Feed the ego or smash it, its up to the "people" now.

Not really true cause some modders buy games too. (I have 10 bought games and 5 "copy")
Now M$ has lost your point #2 but now modders will NOT buy anymore games !

we will just start moding the ps3 so long ms until your new security loophole prevails your loosing out you will see

It will be interesting to see an official number of how many 360s were banned.

Ignorance is a virus. It spreads quickly. You people just don't understand the concept of a world exsisting outside of your own. The amount of hacked boxes is a very, very small ratio of boxes sold. There are 6 million people on Live. Do you really think they care if they have to boot a couple hundred thousand deadbeats? No. They don't. They hope you will go to the competitors, because you will only hurt Sony. Why? MS makes a profit now on every box sold, Sony does not. Sony also has free online. So not only will you play copied games, but you will do it on a free service. But please... go on about how the multi-billion corporation is going to go under because you can't play on Live...

who ever said MS was going under, thats just stupid talk. were just saying its a lose lose situation for EVERYONE involved.

and about that whole screwing sony over thing....can you even play burned ps3 games on a ps3??

The reality is that no matter how much of an arrogant slant some people put on it in public
eg: " MS can go to Hell. I will not be giving them my money again" etc etc
Those same people will already be out buying a new system because they can't live without it.
It's easy to say inthe forum one thing and privately do another.
The only losers will be the people who fall into line and pay up because they can't give up gaming on live. Once more they will be paying under duress.
I cancelled my Gold membership a while back after a disagreement with MS over a point to do with live. Trust me I won't be going back (Keep checking my Gamercard). Instead I will go out in the park with a real football or take the dog out into the real world.
My subscription will mean nothing to MS but I still will not be forced into paying for something just because it is a good service or it's popular with my friends.
If you say you are kicking live then mean it and stick to it. It won't hurt MS in the slightest but you did what you believed was in your interests and it feels good.

ok here is how I behave..

i have played some many games to distinguish and say that 95% of the games out there are repetitions and do not worth the money. Thus i am only buying a game if its superb when i play it on a backup.
So far, my original collents consists of a handful of 3-4 games.

FF X

Halo 1

Gears of War ( it was included in the xbox360 package.. )

World of Warcraft

So far i havent found a single game that was worth the money.

Oh, and as for the online game, its not that great anyways.. ( at least for an MMO addict such as my self )

Bottom line?
I ll stick offline and see how things goes , if the thing is not resolved its ok, i ll just play games offline and check the rest of the consoles.One thing is for sure tho, MS is not gonna grab a sinlge penny out of my pocket no more in that case

Well whats bad in the end if my system gets banned yeah i enjoy xboxlive so ill probably purchase another system but used from a pawn shop not from a department store at pawn shops around here they are running 219 for a core 319 for a premium just so i can play my games on live. But microshaft does not get a penny of f that money so they still loose. And continue to play back ups on my modded console. Oh well i guess

not really microsoft isnt loosing at all.

theres what, several million xbox live subscribers buying online content? i know the scene isnt that big so ill be generous and say probally 10,000 of those were modded firmware, so they are loosing probally 1 mil a year between the subscriptions and the online content purchased. but if 2500 of the banned people go out and buy a new console and 1 game with it, microsoft just made over 1 mil back of what they wouldnt of got from other stuff. and if people continue to buy games beacuse they cant download them anymore, its straight profit for MS. so in reality, they do win.

not really microsoft isnt loosing at all.

theres what, several million xbox live subscribers buying online content? i know the scene isnt that big so ill be generous and say probally 10,000 of those were modded firmware, so they are loosing probally 1 mil a year between the subscriptions and the online content purchased. but if 2500 of the banned people go out and buy a new console and 1 game with it, microsoft just made over 1 mil back of what they wouldnt of got from other stuff. and if people continue to buy games beacuse they cant download them anymore, its straight profit for MS. so in reality, they do win.

This boy never ceases to make sense. 90% of people will start to miss Live, i do, and thus people will go out and buy a console. Its going to take more power to stay off it then run back to it and WHAM, the corp you just bad mouthed you just fed. They're smart, they know this. Its sad to admit that it'll take time to get over it, but end of the day its better to go out and say i didn't have to give in then, i spend £/$xxxx on a new console just for live, the most fun i've had mutliplayer is splitscreen anyway

I disagree about everyone losing. I haven't lost, neither have the millions of others that are using the Live service legitimately.

It shouldn't be a surprise to any modder that Microsoft would take to banning consoles like they did with the Xbox. Modders, arguably, had a rude awakening when MS started banning machines last generation, but they knew damn well that they'd be taking a risk in modding their 360s (or playing backups on Live) this go-around.

I have no pity for those that got banned. Those that have modified their firmware and played backups on Live have since waived their right to argue about how unjust or unfair Microsoft is in banning those machines.

If you get caught shoplifting and the shopkeeper bans you from the store, don't act like a douchebag saying you're going to boycott that store because it "sucks" or whatever.

Some of you need to get out of that fantasy world where getting away with something is better than earning it. If you can't be bothered to buy or rent games or just plain can't afford them, I recommend taking up a less expensive hobby.

I do have to agree you its our own fault my console got banned yesterday, but my brothers console got banned too and its not modded in anyway. He rang MS and told the woman on the phone the whole story and they got back to him today and quoted exactly what is said when you do a network test (this console has been banned blah blah) and that nothing could be done about it because he had broke the terms and conditions of using his console. MS CAN SUCK MY BALLS FOR DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Amen to that brother. The Microsoft banning to the shoplifting is a good point and comparison. Don't know why everyone is surprised and/or upset that they got banned. It seems like they didn't do anything wrong. Put yourself in Microsoft's shoes. Would you do the same thing too if people were using modified consoles that allowed cheating and the use of "backups?"

Ok just wanted to comment on the situation.

First, MS will not loose anything by banning a few consoles. They are a big (evil ) corporation and can do this kind of thing just like that.

To add to the perspective, there are a LOT of people around the globe who purchased the 360 ONLY because it could be modded. Take my country as an example where newer 360 titles cost around $80 (around 20 bucks more than in the US) and the minimum wage is $150 per month!!! Instead of reducing the prices in those countries (by reducing costs) MS increases them?!!! Well, here it is almost a fact that everyone will want to mod their boxes.

Again, MS could try and keep low prices, instead, they bann everyone. Well, they can do it and I hope something ugly occours to them, but most likely it wont.

Cheating I think is pathetic, and I'm all for getting rid of them.

As for backups well... they should just put a tracking type system on the shell. That way, if someone chooses to modify something they purchased and they own, the cops will come and arrest them. Very effective DRM. Treat all customers like criminals seems to be the way to go these days, just look at the music biz. Record companies making outrageous sums of cash, unwilling to drop on cd prices then blame their customers for not giving them more money, and wrap all the downloadable lossy music and movies in DRM so you can do nothing but play it on their player, or their mp3 player (or get plenty of royalties). Can't burn it, can't move it etc. Sounds good to me!

Anyhow, how does one who modifies their box so that they can keep their originals safe gaining an unfair advantage over live? Is it okay for MS to be spying on what you do with YOUR purchase or YOUR money (ethically not legally)?

okay end /rant

But seriously, for those people that mod their xbox's for gameplay advantages online (no idea how that is done) can diaf. :/

ps. they need to ban all people with oddly unstable dsl/cable, even if it is truly unstable and not them hitting the reset button or whatever it is those people do in halo.

I've been reading the posts from all the people who've been banned and all those who have not. It's interesting to read the one's from the people who have legit consoles and have not been banned. I think they should wake up and smell the roses as I don't think there is anyone who can say they don't have anything that they have not payed for, wether it be an mp3 or a game or software.
I HAVE been banned for modding my 360, but at the end of the day it was my fault and I knew the risks. I WILL go out and buy another to play on live, but i will also keep the one I have and play copies on it. I suppose we have to compare this to PC gaming, If you have a copied pc game then unless you have a valid cd key, you just get kicked online. There's no real difference with live. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Play.com are selling the core for £169 at the mo, so i'll probably buy one of those and use my h/d from my other 360. I hear that m$ have NOT banned anyone's account from live, only the console itself, so I /we can use our sigs on a new one as normal. I assume they have banned the consoles using the unique aes key?

I think the funniest replys are those that act like they do a great service to MS by Buying stuff out of marketplace, it just looks so sad i kinda get a laugh out of it.

"I've bought so many things off marketplace, all the games, Microsoft isnt getting a dime from me anymore SCREW THEM!"

as if microsoft is going through the forums, seeing their little cry baby rant and unbanning them because of the potential loss of money.

MS could give a crapless

I agree.

Everyone is talking about people going to PS3, Wii or purchase another 360 and go legit. I've already sold my flashed 360 (I did notify the purchaser of not being able to go Live) and bought a new 360 Elite and have modded that and it works great Live. My point is there are other mods that are undetectable (at the momment) thats why some people that have modded 360's are still going Live.

Banning pirates hurts MS revenue? What will you people think of next? With that kind of logic, the police should stop arresting criminals because it's bad for society. Waaaah... I can't steal games anymore... I hate MS.... waaaah waaaah. Cry me a friggin river.

well maybe not in the US but in other countries i think it might. Not as you think like direct money but will drive new people away. One of the reasons the console was doing so well here in Portugal was because it was easily modded AND you get to play the games on-line. This as allways been a SONY coutry but MS was entering the market. Almost every one i know modded the console but everyone i know as at least 2 or 3 original games. The ones they can afford i guess.

Also everybody paid for live as it has been implemented here not a year ago. I give it another year before they say their going to pull the plug...

The name MS was beginning to be seen as a good thing like they were kind for letting us play our games on-line as opposed to the years and years of bad rep because of windows.

They will not sell much now im affraid and MS name is going down once again.

and so you know a core costs 300 euros here and the minimum wage is 400. But still people were making an effort to buy the console and a few games cause everybody knows if no one buys games they will stop being made.

But who really cares about a backwater place like my country? well I do...

doesn't bother me really its only ban from live, had they started to brick consoles that would be a different story. my console still works just maybe not on live. i didn't buy the 360 purely on live alone i bought it for the great games. there are worse things a person can do than modding xboxes and download music. people seem to forget that before the days of online consoles people got by with offline consoles just fine. time to look into some local lans or gather a few friends around on weekends. if you must go online there are plenty of good games coming on the pc , team fortress 2, quakewars, hell theres WoW you will forget you ever owned an xbox .

Thats exactly what I think. Just look at my perspective (equivalent to a lot of other countries) of the past generations of consoles:

Back in the PS1 days there was a LOT of backing-up aroung (at least where I live) and I dont think it was a bad bussines for SONY as they kept selling the damm things like they were candies (PS1s), even when they knew there was a 99.9% chance that it would be modded. SONY won that war (there was not N64 modding), and the same happened with the PS2 (there wasnt widespread DC modding, the xbox1 still has a good acceptance-live wasnt that important then-).

The same was starting to happen with the 360, but now the hammer. And who knows how far will they go, like even affecting offline functionality on future releases.

The fact is, people will spend an specific non-variable (or not by much) aumont of money on games, gaming services or accesories (including some original games) and people will try to maximize their money and will buy the moddeable system. Now MS will be loosing a share of that money from some countries and even in the US. MS is just trying to extract more money from where there isnt. The content right now is not that important as there still isnt a clear winner that would give security of continuity in the long run.

However, Im sure they have a lot of fancy decision taking techniques and they decided to give us the hammer. To their eyes we are not persons or even gammers, we are a market share and they take their decisions based on that. I just hope they were wrong and they loss this generation. At least Im sure they will loss it on many countries.

One has to view the console consumer as an economic decision maker and the console as an investment, as of right now, the 360 has just lost a lot of its appeal.

They did not stop pirates from playing games for free, but they don't allow them to go online.... and not to buy anything else...

So a loss, is a loss, even though it won't affect microsoft, they won't be winning as they could if they didn't banned the xbox live feature....

They did a favor for them.... prevent them from buying stupid things like avatars.... from buying extra content, and allowing them to play games for free, without the online part....

MS got lots of money, i agree, but they could be doing much money...

what should I do with my remaining MS points? and the games I purchased on another console? cuz I thougt I could spent on other console and play them on mine and that didnt worked what the hell!!

I agree...

Last time MS was banning with xbox1 i decided to rip the cord off (network) and play offline, several years have passed and i still play offline.

Oh and for this halo stuff, who cares for Halo 2 and the super cheaters out there, we played many times in the new console (with original discs) and were frustrated from the super players that were having killing spree in a matter of seconds.....

I can say that halo 3 is not itching my back, i'm not dyin to play it and because there were many mediocre games for x360 i'm not whinning for the inability to play on live.

What i really miss is the content such as the marketplace and the small games that can be played without having to be a button masher.

I could say....."So long and thanks for all the fish"......

i still dont understand why people are so upset. this was coming and everyone knew it.

Grow up son - They dont have to beat the hackers for ever. As the true hackers as opposed to pirates learn from each generation cracked so the designers learn too.

They dont have to make an 'unhackable' device they just have to make one that resists hacking for the products life time and we may short of that by only one or 2 generations of consoles. Beacuse once the latest new shinny toy is released and the herds move to that there is no finanical lose if somebody does crack it out of sheer interest.


As for what it cost them to catch you? why a very very TINY fraction of a cent if that . Thats how important you are to microsoft. They allready PAY those people as a price of doing business, its called a fixed
overhead.

In an arms race such as this the hackers teach Microsofts peopel how new attack vectors and new security as much as MS teach the hackers.

Profit possible from you umm not much a fixed amount - your live subscription you allready stated you wouldnt spend cash to buy the games. I would hazard a guess it costs more to develope one hit title to pull the punters in to XBL than it does to run XBL . MS may make more profit from XBl than they do each title but without the titles there would be no one on xbl - so it stands to reason they are going to protect their core interest.

The Reality is MS won this round - be a man shrug and tyake your loses, sadly its much easier to whine like a bitch andspit your dummy out like a child. no free lunches in this life son.

Don't waste your breath on him. because of the above quote he will not be back

MS wont ban offline backup games as playing backups is only breaking the Live TOS...

MS stopped short of what they could have done. (at least so far).

If I was MS my next tatic would be to withdraw as many 'older' titles as possible and get the companies concerned to reissue them repackaged as 'classic' games etc.

Of course they would be patched before pressing to require a new dash upgrade and Carry a very large prominent WARNING lable this product will ONLY run on a xbox 360 with kernel upgrade XXXXX or above etc.

Then Implement a similar kind of check they are doing now (however they did it ) in that kernel upgrade. The result for all intents is your box will run games you allready purchased. New games will run as long as you accept the upgrade there fore your box isnt brick. Im not sure on the legal position of not allowing any games to run if you dont accept the update ie would that be classed as MS bricking you device or not.


Backups or '100 years before the mast and then the locker for you' versions wont and will ban you from XBL.

Incidentally If as appears they have been preparing for this for a while Id have put a lot of the checks /code necessary for this into the autum update that blew the efuse.


Thu its late and im probally just paranoid.

Uh, who is pissed off? the only people i see pissed off are the people pirating games and playing it on live.
I'm not pissed off, i'm laughing at you guys. You really expect them to let you copy i mean "backup" games your "bought" games and expect to play it on live? I have no respect for you guys. Look at the other modders who got banned and can say they knew it was coming and took the risk. They are not crying about it. Those are people i can respect and most people would because they knew where they were doing and if they get banned, oh well.

I've been reading other threads and people talking about being banned and most of them knew what they were doing. This is the only thread which a person crys because they can't play copied i mean "backup" games no more.

You have all lost it....

think about it..... if half (my prediction) of the owners of banned boxs go out and buy another to play live..... m$ get another $500 and another unit sold and they still get the subscription and online payments....

They are still ahead ahead if even only 1/5th buy another box......

ummmm.... and to top it off.... do you really think m$ would not do the figures before making this decision.... everyone knocking it put your hand up if you have a company even 100th as succesful!

RANT OVER

As silly as this kid sounds. He has a point. MS still hasnt stopped piracy at all. Pirates dont care about live they just want the games for free. Call up a few friends and connect via console to console. Same results as live. This live ban is morally right but financially wrong

Best statement so far.

My position on this is probably unique to most. My first launch Xbox360 broke so I sent it in for repair while it was out I bought another used one because I did not want to wait. The one Microsoft sent back to me is a Toshiba and that is the one I modded the one I bought used remained unmodded (Samsung) because it has an extended warranty on it from best buy, that the girl I bought it from bought for it. So when the ban came I was slightly upset because this becomes more of an inconvenience than anything else, I just switch the two 360’s around the unmodded one is now on the big screen as my primary gaming system and the modded one is now in my bedroom as a media extender, which is all I really use it for anyway.

Microsoft still has only received the money from me one time for purchasing a new system and that is all they will receive from me as far as systems go. I will continue to buy games I like.

The only games I play online are sports games for the leagues that I’m in, and I only download free stuff off the market place so I’m a customer they could careless if they lost.

The only thing I’m mad at is myself for not check the scene before I turned my 360 on yesterday, then maybe I would have known to reflash it to the latest firmware instead of being lazy and using the really old one that was still working.

I think that one reason they wanted modders and hackers off live is because some of them use cheats to hack the games so they can be invincible (or near enough) on ranked matches..too many cry babies I say. Just go onto youtube and watch some of the Gears of War glitches...some of them are hilarious

Maybe M$ will reduce the price of the games now, if they are as fair as they make out.

Other dear friends of mine (lazy and undisciplined) that were banned....Well, they are getting better. They aren't sitting around bitching and moaning about being banned...In fact, they are a few steps closer to reality

They all bought another 360....End of story

This thread make me laugh. " I bought so much stuff from the marketplace and Don't know why microsoft banned me". Man Microsoft has to think about their developers and stop backup games. Why would a company release games for 360 if they will lose money cause of people playing backups. Microsoft don't care about you, all they worry about is them self and their developers.

I just purchased a Xbox 360 on Ebay for $150. I was planning on not buying one at all, but I'm addicted to that MLB 2K7. I'm suffering through some serious withdrawls right now. I modded my box, because I loved the idea of playing the backups to my original games. I have others in my home that likes to play it and they seem to have a habit of treating my games like coasters. I don't plan on buying any games to play on the new xbox except for sports games. To me, playing sport games online are the only games that really enhances the gameplay to another level versus playing it in single player mode. My modded box still has plenty of other uses besides going online and it's here to stay. F%*%! M$!!

MS isnt going to lose, people will moan and complain, but its your own fault. Games are expensive yes, but shit, we all work hard to be able to pay for these, you shouldn't be any different. Looking at it this way, all those people who got banned are GOING to buy another unbanned console when Halo 3, hits the stores. Its sad, but its true.

So Another 360 (400$) + another 12 months + (50$) + Halo 3 (60$) yeah with taxes another 550$ that MS gets in their pockets.

I am happy with the Elite, never plan on modding it, and even though I had my frustrations with MS, they always come through somehow.

1) MS lost nothing from this. People who buy games legitimately lost nothing from this. Only the modders who mod to play pirated games lose. No problem here.

2) If they are targetting individuals who pirate, then few of these individuals are buying content anyways. As for live gaming, well, it goes back up to #1. If they aren't paying for the game, what right do they have to play it anyways?

3) I'm not. In fact I'm pretty happy to hear MS is and is able to be aggressive here. With the Security built into the 360, they are able to be more agressive with this than they could with the origianl Xbox. While I'd love to have some of the moddable functionality that was in the first Xbox (I modded one for use in a car), I have no problem giving that up to be able to enjoy cheat-free gaming.


Another question that you might ask is who loses from modding?

Obviously, developers do. They miss out on profits that may have been generated had those who would have paid for a game if pirating was unavailable, actually bought said game. MS does as well as they miss out on their licensing fee for the same games. Gamers also lose. While I haven't heard of cheat using mods on the 360 yet, anything opening the door to that may in the fuure affect our gaming experience. Disinteresting the majority from such things would make it harder for the companies and individuals building these mods to want to make such mods if there is no market for it.

Believe it or not, the legitimate gamers also actually pay more for their console and games due to piracy. It's not as direct, but the reason the console and software has such security in the first place is because of the piracy. The R&D to make these securities and enforce them doesn't come cheap. All the consoles, and games might be a little cheaper if MS/Sony/Nintendo had no reason to build such security. There is NO SUCH THING AS A VICTIMLESS CRIME. Anyone who says otherwise is either pushing their own agenda, completely ignorant, or can not see the world outside the confines of their own room...

Enough pissing and moaning already. You can't get back on live. Boo hoo. The only real reality is anyone that went to the trouble of modding to play backups had pirated games and anyone with a shread of intelligence would know that you would be banned at some point. Get over it.

i find it funny that everyone is all, "fuck you ms, i'm going to buy a ps3 or wii". that makes no sense. the ps3 costs 600 for a new console, sure, online is free but that doesn't mean they can't ban you when there is a valid mod for the ps3. so right now, you'd be willing to spend more money on a ps3, then, buy games since there isn't a quality mod like there is for the 360, then, when there is, you take the chance of losing online on that one too. just because sony and nintendo haven't banned anyone, doesn't mean they aren't going to. and the wii, oh yes, this lovely machine. the mod is almost as simple as the 360 but are you really going to play a game like cod3 on this machine? no, you aren't. i have a wii, i have tried FPS games and they suck. the wiimote is a POS for any game that is not specifically designed from the ground up for use with it. IR isn't accurate enough for these types of things and me holding my hand steady enough the whole time i'm playing isn't likely to happen. i have a ps3, all it does is fold. so stop your moaning and crying, go buy another 360 or patiently wait, quietly, for a workaround.

Congratulations!!! you are the thousandth person to say that

Obviously I hit a nerve...

In all seriousness I'll share my opinion no matter if it is similar to others or not.

I love how microsoft bans you and the conviently can't tell you why you were banned.

They have told everyone WHY they were banned. Breaking The XBL TOS.
Oh I see..you mean you want them to tell you the criteria they base their checks on to ban people.
Why would/should they reveal that.