vote, discuss

The lack of a built in hard drive has forced development problems on a number of games, not the least of which is what GTA4's developers have been talking about for ages.

Forgoing that, what *could* have some of our best games have been like if they were designed with the knowledge that everyone *would* have HDD's? Would Oblivion have been a smoother experience? perhaps without having to load to go in and out of cities?

The only real upshot to having a removable hard drive is the fact that you can 'upgrade" the hard drive, with highly overly expensive Microsoft products.

A high definition disc would have been nice, but that might have pushed back the release fo the 360, as well as given developers more room to fill out games, etc. But the fact of the matter is that the high definition media tends to load more slowly, and, in general, all that extra stuff they *would* have put in, is usually given as add-ons (with the sorrowful addition of a price tacked on - but hey, at least it gives the developer's incentive to continuing to support a product LONG after its initial release, as well as give you extras that you might never have gotten with the disc, such as large numbers of extra levels, or tracks, as well as entirely new campaigns, etc. These do happen already, even without the XBL Marketplace, but they would be far less frequent, IMO, without it).

Like I said in the first thread, non-standard HDD is the biggest problem in my opinion.

And a really stupid one when you remember we're talking about Xbox here.

well i think its first the overheating , lack of free online and the fact that without cooling mods it wont last a year or so

Yeah but they said excluding 3ROD issues, which to me would include overheating and not lasting a year (resulting in 3ROD).

I'm just going to stick with anything to do with the rushed hardware.
Disc scratching. Of course, some people do that for a living. *chuckle*

Same as last limited file support.

To me, all the choices are mistakes are MS' fault,but the 1st is overpriced accessories,and the 2nd is no internal hi-def/capacity disc!

It has been proven that the 360 does not scratch discs if it is handled properly!!! Get over the fact that you don't know how to take care of your console and games.

I chose the optional HDD. The hard drive in the xbox made it a huge hit, and they got rid of it? Eh.

I dont see paying for xbox live as a problem, im a happy customer. Its a great service, heaps of free exclusive downloads, so much fun with friends. Other services may be free, but how good are they? You get what you pay for...

Limited filetype support doesnt matter too much to me, cos my 360 is on the same 40" lcd that my comp is, so thats no problem.

Though lately i've been wondering about the lack of hi def. Would have been good, but then the system would have cost more and taken longer to come out. Also, it would have been forcing the format on consumers, and they didnt want that, thats one of the upsides (to them) for having it external.

The 360 is overall, a very nice system. the software is versitile and smoothly designed, graphic and gameplay is top knotch, and support for warranty purposes is extended longer than any other console in the market.

Of course all items listed in the list are downfalls of the console, with some huge ones being pay to play online, and shipping drastically variant systems (seems to be resurrected with the elite, big hard drive, HDMI, improved cooling/heatsinks). Can't wait for the Xbox 360 two, thats what? 2 years away now? original xbox lasted for 4 years, 360s been out for nearly 2.

I wanna play xvid, divx, mov, mp4 and whatever formats may come in my gd x360 without having to use my PC for that thing. Definitively the biggest mistake.

i would have voted for only a handful of 1/2 decent games... but that wasnt on there. there are litteraly only 3 or so hits for the system, and MAYBE 5 games even worth owning.

Forget about the scratching issues, they are rare, what about the fact that half of the DVD rom drives fail to open when the console is vertical? I've flashed quite a few systems and nearly every one with a Samsung drive has opening issues. How was this not mentioned in the last thread or this one?

Seriously, I feel like i'm the only person to experience this in a huge way.

Making additional file formats natively supported would have been a simple thing to do. They just didn't. So now that leaves it up to the homebrewers to come up with a solution that could've been addressed from the get go.

the limited file system support is the biggest mistake in my opinion.
followed by releasing a core system.
the good thing is, both problems could be "fixed", and the first one at no extra cost for the consumer.

regards
Quest

p.s. why are people complaining about the RROD?
with the 3 year warrenty, that's only an issue to people with a broken warrentyseal :-P

Al tho i think developers would love the chance to go wild with 18 or even 32gb of space per game (internal hd) and prices for accessories are way to high (come on $100 for a 20gb hdd i can find them for under $20)

i went with poor quality headsets because I'm on my 7th wired headset now and my rfboard has been named incorrectly and needs to be replaced so i cant use wireless.


ya well its not like there trying to compete with xbmc or anything, it would be nice to see some divx support tho.


everyone hates dealing with M$ customer support and rrod is a problem that occurs in at least %35 of all 360.

I voted game scratching cause what good is a system that scratches the disc you're playing, and that you paid good money for? It's like excluding the game portion of "game console".

no it's not.
i've played gh2 for 3 days on a 2 week old console.
the console wasnt moved or anything and stood vertical on a cooling device witch also enshures it's stability.
on the third day the 360 won't read the disc (the disc wasn't moved out of the box an was new).
the disc was f***** up with circular scratches.
so don't belive anything that's "prooven" anyone paid by m$ ....

It wasn't hard to choose Limited Filetype support as the number one issue with the system. Regardless of the fact that I can use my PC on the display to view whatever I want, the integration of all those features in the first Xbox (w/ XBMC ofcourse) and partially in the x360 makes it so convenient and fun to do.
It is very frustrating to see MSFT giving you the option to 1. connect to your media library on the pc, 2. connect up removable FAT formatted mem stick, and 3. Connect removable USB drives (including USB powered mini drives) and then bring you to a brick wall limiting the media you can access from there, knowing (and no one can convince me that they don't know) the most popular and one of the most efficient in respect to compression / quality media formats out there is the Divx / Xvid format family. WMV is arguably better and miles ahead in HD, but when it comes to video libraries even recorded tv from PVR software, most people, including myself choose Divx or Xvid.

The other issue I have with the system is ridiculously overpriced accessories. Apart from that, I love the Xbox 360 and all else it has to offer. Paying for Xbox live isnt really an issue because of all what you get for free anyway. If subscription based gold membership is a prob soley because of online gaming for someone, then they should check out the alternative free options available (eg. Xlink Kai).

I really don't see the lack of an internal High Def optical format reader as an issue, because the option is still available to users, who require the comnbination of a gaming and movie machine costing them much less than other options altogether.

The Release of a core system in my opinion also shouldn't be criticized even if some games are later made to run better on systems with storage. The blunder wud be on the person who decided to pay less knowing there is better out there and wished to compromise convenience for price. The option to upgrade still remains, not like it's absolutely not possible once you decide on a system from the get go as is with the HDMI option on the Elite. It would be like saying car makers should discontinue basic models because some people want navigation systems and temperature control in their cars, when some people just don't care and prefer to manually adjust the temperature and waste more gas while reading a map and going round in circles. Bottom line, the choice is that of the user and it can be added later on.

The issues with the discs were already cleared up earlier by someone and I would agree with them that it was an issue with users not handling the systems properly (in most cases at least).

Cheap and crappy D-pad is not too much of an issue especially when it is placed one of, if not THE best controller developed, for a system where most games only use it for secondary controlling or as added buttons for selecting options (weapons, play formations etc.)

Funny how no one commented on the lack of a web browser, I don't know if it is even an issue for me, I was just very pleased to see them integrate MSN messenger, a request I am sure was imagined by many users of XBL messaging.

In concluding, I would say it they address the issues with the file type support and reduce the cost of accessories, they would hear much less complaints from the user community. IMHO. <----my 2cents

i think 99 bucks for wifi is ridiculous especially since wii comes with it out of box.

I voted for the core system. In the first Xbox, developers KNEW a hard drive would be there and could program accordingly. With the new system, they either have to program like the HD won't be there or take into account the possibility that it may or may not be there. I think this has affected a number of games, since I don't believe that the developers have the luxury of having loads of time to code the extra logic for when a HD is attached. Also, the price never really made the core system a realistic option since the HD alone is $100. They could have at least included a memory card so you could save games. The core system was a really dumb move, IMO.

I think people are having their judgement clouded by their personal situation, but I suppose thats why its a vote...

disc scratching, all cd consoles have had this issue to an extent, so thats just the way it is with high speed spinning objects, working at a games store i say plenty of ps1 and ps2 disks that had been scratched like this.

limited media formats, this will not affect the vast majority of consumers, it plays mp3 and dvd. Wmv is nice and DivX would have been great and it still could be, so this to me is not terminal as it can always be fixed with no affect on consumers.

Over priced addons, yes the wifi adaptor is alot, but thats down to marketing believing they can squeeze that much cash out of you, and again it can be lowered without a problem.

noise,.... well this was close for me, it is alot but then I dont think its really more than other consoles, the only difference is the dvd is always at full speed so it seems louder, if that makes scence, I think as a level its on par with others but as a percentage of time at its maximum its there a hell of alot more than others.

headset... seemed fine to me for an included accessory, mine is a liitle faulty but all my friends work perfect so no real complaints.

gold fee, you get what you pay for, plus ebay is great for cheap scratch cards.

dpad... it was never going to be a saturn pad, so always inferior

second to worst decision, no HD, now this i think was bad, personally I think as hd-dvd is so close to dvd and its selling points are the small cost to move to it, I think its crazy they did not go ahead with this, they aimed the rest of the 360 at HD, I think the 360 was just that fraction too early, there where not HD players I dont think at that time so it would have ment delaying the 360 and they knew they could do an external solution, so the real crux here is no HD in the elite and no hdmi on the original.... it was just to early and hdmi is not 100% needed so its a forgivable sin if the above where better.

But the no.1 main weakness was the lack of HDD. They claimed they dont need the storage because compression techniques will overcome the space limitations, now that is true, but because of memory limits would it not have been better to then have a HDD on all systems so that this highly compressed data could be preloaded / decompressed somewhere to reduce to load on the system..... This I feel is the worst design flaw as because they have sold systems without a hdd developers cannot presume there is one, so no change now will change the fact that a hdd might not be present, and I cant see m$ allowing games that require a hdd to pass certification.

Limited filetype support for media playback
Use your computer
No internal High-Def/Capacity Disc
It's a choice. Choices are nice. I have the external add-on. I plan on getting 300 in HD-DVD soon!
Overpriced accessoires (WiFi Adapter, HDD, ...)
Solution-
Use a wire
Use an alternate wireless adapter
Buy a Premium or Elite
Get a 3rd party accessory
Lack of a webbrowser
Use your computer
Crappy D-pad
Never really noticed this TBH..
Low quality of standard headset
I guess mines a little quiet?
Make HDD optional (Core system)
I voted for this. All SKUs should have an HDD.
Noise produced by the 360
Ehh, it can get a little noisy, but that's what the "Up" volume button is for
Read/Scratch-disc issues with DVD-ROM
Had this happen once (to my GH2 disc).. still works perfectly though.
Live Gold fee for online gaming
Xbox Live has always been worth paying for.

HDD - Thats waht sold the xbox

I know what you mean. My second console had this issue and the new Samsung drive had the problem to. Seems to be an issue with Samsung's magnets. I had the issue on most of the Samsung drives I saw for the Xbox 1 too. You'd have to beat the console until your hand was sore to get it to open if it didn't have a disc.

Now why isn't this getting as much attention as the RROD? I'm so sick of hearing about that, having seen six consoles and no RROD...

I vote for the only one that effects me - disc scratching and read errors. Oddly enough it happens the most with brand new games, the ones the 360 has chewed on already seem to work fine.

i think the product is a big mistake. No HDD, overpriced, no Wifi, overheating, noisy, only MS format supported for videos ... I 've sold mine and don't want to buy another one.

Finally someone agrees with me. Samsung drives are garbage! they may be able to read alot of media but they are mechanically unsound. I seriously feel this should be added to the list. If you don't believe me just orientate your console vertically and try to eject your tray. I have flashed many consoles so I know what i'm talking about.

Samsung really need to look at designing a new opening mechanism.

Exactly (well hdmov's anyway...I can play .mov's and some hd). And this is something which wouldn't cost M$ hardly anything to correct. I know they can be greedy.. but why not include this? Are they that afraid someone might play an illegal movie/TVshow? Are they that worried that it may be as good as the Xbox1's XBMC??!! 8) Come On MSoft! Give it a break...give us a new mpg4 profile (XviD/DivX). Lawsuits? You get them all the time anyway...

We payed for your box.. now make it work with the Internet.

Not including a browser is my second choice BTW. I guess you just can't trust IE7????
hahah

bC

I choose lack of media type support, but thats not exactly accurate to what I wanted.

MS hype up the 360 with its XBLA/Video/Music/Game services, But I live in Australia, and the XBL Video Marketplace is well, crap, really. Right now, if I go to "All TV Shows" I get, "Artist of the Month" (Which has 3 songs, all of which are terrible), "Digital Entertainment" (containing ONLY the HD-DVD Player Promos), "Robbie Williams-Concert (ick.)" and "Viva Pinata, The Animated Series"

Yet, I see on the US XBL, I see 199 TV shows, movie hire, episode purchases, tons of stuff we can't get on DVD here, demos for games we never even see. In all, I see what the Marketplace is SUPPOSED to be about.

Because Australia isn't deemed a "major" market, we miss out on 99% of that kinda stuff.

*goes to watch his Robbie Williams "All TV Shows" >..>;*

Errr... Crappy D-Pad. Its just plain WRONG

I voted for the limited media type support. Simply because the only reason for it is because they don't care about whether we'd love to be able to use our 360 to watch videos on our PC on the tv, instead of on a PC monitor. But that would cause a risk of less people using their marketplace video services, and when it's something that could lose them potential revenue, their basic attitude is "well fuck the consumers". I would probably have little use for my XBox now (it's only purpose is to run XBMC now, I've not played games on it for ages) if I'd been able to watch my vids via the 360.

i voted for "Make HDD optional (Core system)" ... cause like someone said it is causing issues for games like GTA4.

all-in-all though i just think it was a mistake to sell a system without a hard drive.... cause it's just handicapping the system.

I'm having the same problem and guess what!! it fails to open in both ways vertical and horizontal

btw..imo the biggest mistake is the overpriced accessories then making HDD optional

also, for High-Def/Capacity Disc it's a good thing that MS made it optional so the price won't go high

Limited filetype support for media playback was my vote
ADD to that "OTHER" file support (unsigned code) and I'm done

but in the cussrent state who the wants to convert thier .avi files to a crappy wmv format to watch on the 360?

My 360 gets turned on for GAMES ONLY I could really care less about the MEDIA CENTER wich BLOWS (reason above^^^.avi files)
and as such I use good o'l Xbox1 and XBMC for ANY/ALL medai server tasks

why would one put their console vertical?



What did Australia ever do to deserve such treatment? Actually Australia did get all that content but your government has banned most of it.



What do you do with your headsets that cause them to break?

I for one have no idea what you are talking about with Microsoft customer support. Sony customer support is awful, it's like calling Australia.



Final Fantasy XI

that's why I would put it vertical

NOISE

I hardly use that stupid thing because of the immense noise it makes. I hate noisy systems, and this POS takes the price.. still use my original xbox about 100times more, xbmc and 80mm fan mod just makes it so much more appealing.

As of today, the limited filetype support for media playback is definitely the biggest mistake, but the lack of a webbrowser and the high amount of noise produced are also quite big mistakes

In the future filetype support for mp and webbrowser might be fixed by the homebrew scene. But the noise will remain.

L

wow.. the vote is really hard to choose

Outside of rrod I would have to say limited file type support. Least i would say was the hi-def internal disc... This keeps the cost of the unit down so it can out sell the p3

WTF said anything about scratching discs, get your eyes checked, do you even know what 3ROD aka rrod means? Aside from anything I was correcting the person in question to say we can't include overheating issues because it's part of the Rrod issue.
I've never had a problem with any of my game discs you `tard pack owner.

I just worked out that you meant to quote tattoedbear, read what you're actually quoting next time st00pid.

No it's nothing to do with a government we don't have a fascist dictatorship government that gets up set about a covered nipple appearing on the superbowl. Oh and while we're at it I also believe your government creates wars about oil in the middle east, we do have a F@#k wit for a leader that follows your government though (inspite of the populous being not in favour of that).
The real reason we don't have any IPTV stuff in Australia is for one simple reason, we do not have adequate broadband to a large enough percentage of the population that have Xbox 360's.
If Rupert Murdoch (you uncultured americans might know him from his appearances on The Simpsons, owner of fox, aussie expatriot) says we don't have adequate broadband for IPTV then I would say we don't, because if he could deliver TV in new ways he'd be the first doing it.
So shove those comments up your stOOpid patriotic ass (I translated stupid to the way you say it there so you would understand).

my biggest complaint and really only major one is the lack of HD audio over hdmi on the elite.
Thats the only thing the ps3 does better than 360 imo....

Support for DivX

Im shocked people choose Media Formats over the D-Pad and lack of the HD.

Personally, it would be the lack of HD. After they made such a fuss about that being WHY the xbox was so cool, only to then remove it in the 360 (well make it "optional" but effectively no longer the benefit it had in the Xbox being mandatory.

Then theres the D-Pad, which was a poor excuse as the Xbox one was fine so why is the 360 one even worse than the DS or Gamecube ones which arent exactly stellar either but they do the job better.

my brothers stock 360 and my modded 360 have samsung drives that only like to open when horizontal AND a disc is already in the drive... other wise it's luck getting it to open.

my choice was higher capacity disc drive, i don't think microsoft's mistake was offering the core system. the mistake was not allowing devs to require a hard drive...

take GTA4, not a casual gamer's game of choice. most people who would play GTA4 already have a hard drive or would buy one.

at the very least they should allow updates distributed via live to make full use of the hdd by caching data...

I hate the external Hard drive, and its price!

When you are on a budget, its hard to decide between buying a core and an overpriced hard drive, or the extra expensive premium or elite

Lack of Harddrive in one SKU. They had it right the first time around.