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yourgod78
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:25 AM) *

Why mod your Xbox you can do all that stuff on your pc? not too convinced about playing ROMs is it legal you will have to enlighten me on that one?.
"And the 360 hack is used to play BACKUPS, not burned games"
so how do you play your backups without burning them 1st?.
there are 2 sorts of people here who talk about backups 1st is the guy who thinks its his god given rite to backup his games, not true its illegal
2nd is the guy who wants to backup his games so the original don't get scratched, mmm not too convinced about that, the DVDs would have to be in a rite mess fore them not to play, so you should take more care of your £40 games so they don't get scratched


I deleted what I said, but don't be such a tool that would piss on Americans rights.

Ya know dude if you keep stroking these assholes in washington, and buying into their b.s. your eventually gonna get something in your eye.
pug_ster
What the US government is doing is counterproductive anyways. It is like the crystal meth thing. When the Us government raided many of the home labs, countries like Mexico and Netherlands start producing cheaper and better quality crystal meth.

Don't be surprised that if someone wants to buy a modded console in a few months, that person will probably buy it from a foreign country, where the US has little or no juristidction in. It is only a matter of time.
epsilon72
QUOTE(appleguru @ Aug 2 2007, 10:32 PM) *

The fact that we're wasting taxpayer's money and that we diverted hundreds of personnel whose job it is to protect our borders away from their jobs to go after people like us is sickening.


I agree with this. But then again, money is what makes the world go 'round....why worry about things that really need our attention when we can be going after those who are "interfering with a company's profits"? rolleyes.gif

Although despite what these companies think, installing modchips in a console doesn't do jack to their precious bottom line - that is only affected when people decide to pirate games.
pirichios
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 05:13 PM) *

At last some one who is a relist,
just one other thing JBmtk what would you do with XBMC? let me think you could convert all you DVDs to xvid/divx so you didn't SCRATCH them and stream them to your Xbox, or you could be downloading illegal DVDs/xvid/divx? who knows?

its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.

P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)
Chancer
QUOTE
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool?

You of course realise that XBMC is not some open source freeware (Developed using XDK and copyright code without permission.) You can't use this as a legit reason for chipping an Xbox as regards legal purposes.

The reason I mod stuff is just for the sake of being able to do it. I am not interested in backing up my games (My originals are pristine and used by my kids correctly) I am not even that bothered about what the box does after (probably unique in that respect). I mod it to see what can be done then move on to something else.

I think the people they should chase are the distributors of pirate software and games. At the end of the day if these people did not do what they do on such a grand scale the guy who chips the boxes would be left alone.
They are trying to cut off the supply at source as they have not been successful in stopping pirates.
This affects everyone and now has a lot of people running scared.
soggypants
sad.gif sorry to hear that, i hope you win the fight.....lawyer up maybe?
stopit33
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 10:31 PM) *

its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.

P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)


Man I know all about that stuff and I know what MOST people use it for and it to play copy's end off, tell it to the judge bud and see if it helps
pirichios
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 5 2007, 12:15 AM) *

Man I know all about that stuff and I know what MOST people use it for and it to play copy's end off, tell it to the judge bud and see if it helps

well im not arguing with a judge, im arguing with you. Running linux is still legal and i use it to run xmugen if these guys had cromwell bios's in the modchips, they do fall on the exception of the DMCA. know your laws before using the judge card man.
and chancer you are correct. but the fact that you say that only pirates should be prosecuted, tells me that part of you wish the xbox had legal homebrew. Hell, im pretty sure even though you moved on to other things you probably stayed with the xbox for a while to see what it could do smile.gif
JBmtk
QUOTE(stopit33 @ Aug 4 2007, 09:13 AM) *

At last some one who is a relist,
just one other thing JBmtk what would you do with XBMC? let me think you could convert all you DVDs to xvid/divx so you didn't SCRATCH them and stream them to your Xbox, or you could be downloading illegal DVDs/xvid/divx? who knows?


yep, that is exactly it. In fact, that is what every media center is used for; Streaming media, which of course would have to be pirated, in your typical bootlegeed divx format. To hell with ripping your own movies onto your hard drive! Who would do that? /saracasm

Maybe because 1) you can transport them better 2) Easier to access 3)You can read them better off of a Hard drive 4) Can easily sort movies/music better 5) and ur a dumbass
Theres not point in arguing if anyone pirates anything because no one can prove it. Go ahead and keep on blabbering and accusing people on here.

QUOTE(Mikeizzle @ Aug 4 2007, 09:32 AM) *

Dude, that sucks, i'm sorry to hear you got bit by corperate america. If you can, defend your self as much as possible in court, prove to these suckers that the average citizen wont be feared into this stupid excuse to make more money. Personally i think its bullshit that they do this to people when they cant even provide someone with a job, its not your fault you dont have work, you're just an entrapenuar making an honest buck. The fact that they're taking you to jail over some stupid code and a piece of silicon is just well.... retarded. Hang in there man.


I agree %100

QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 03:31 PM) *

its probably something you will never understand seriously, go read to xbmc's website what it can do, you look at all modded crap like only tools for piracy, that is a very ignorant statement.
xbmc, isnt meant for piracy, its a convenient way to have a virtual library of your dvd's, a great tool for playing your personally recorded tv, shows a virtual library of your music cd's and a virtual library of the games you own. why is this cool? you dont need to be poping a damn disc everytime, just back your originals and safe keep them. Emulators? you say? i dont see nothing wrong with it as long as you own the original cartriges. an emulator on an xbox can whoop a pc's ass anytime. why? it s the gamepad has been pre-setup so it feels right at home. the emulator features a 1080i mode something that is downright f-ing amazing. can i do that with my pc? yes. why do i do it? its more convenient, i can play it on my tv(like hell i will bother connecting my pc to my tv i just think is not convenient. and regarding linux? you just owned yourself with that one. XMugen of course! a fighting engine that can only be ran through linux on the xbox features one of the coolest features in gaming. Create your own fighting game.linksboks is a browser that is nice and convenient to use when you are using an hdtv. stepmania allows you to create your own ddr songs. dosbox allows you to run older ms-dos games pc's dont support anymore.I could keep going on and on but i believe this is enough.

P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)



agreed, xbmc isnt meant for piracy. Pretty much ANYTHING you use could potential be used for piracy, a knife could kill people and some do kill people, but others don't. You could also use a knife to say, slice butter, make a cake, sharpen a rock, and other shit that u'd see on ur typical "only $19.95" infomerical. Justin like in XBMC, you can watch youtube vids and surf the web, and loads of other I'm sure ur all aware of.

BTW, ROM's were never declared illegal, since all those games are no longer in production. And although many dispute over the legalites of it, no one has been prosecuted against owning them or distributing them. But don't worry mom (stopit33), I own over %90 of N64 games and all of my orignal xbox games and movie dvds, but I don't need to prove anything to you (stopit33) any further. If you would like, I can take a picture of all of my crap with a little ripped out piece of paper with my name on it just so you can sleep better at home, tucked in in your bed which is of course surrounded by all of your original casing of movies/games/music.
JBmtk
edit: Billman's post was deleted above mine, but basically was wondering if they would go after the buyers and who is there next target

They usually don't go over buyers. Its gonna be hard to charge a buyer into doing jail time or suing them. Just like in marijaunia, if your caught smoking it, you get a fine or what not, but if your dealing, then thats big time jail time.

Chances are he's cooperating, but the FBI or ICE rather will not go after the buyers, maybe other installers or friends of his that helped him install/sell/advertise. I don't expect a harsh sentence. Probably probation like someone suggested and a fine, although I'm not all too familiar with the consequences of the DMCA.

Its gonna be the first trial of its kind, so there gonna try to hit them hard, but I think the judge will realize that this is crap and unfair to do. Its not like its the one shop in San Diego or wherever that actually sold orignal xboxes with a 500GB hard drive in them preloaded with games out of a retail store across the street from one of the manufactures of the games! The owner/employees if I can recall had to spend like 5 months in jail and pay a hefty fine.


Heres another story
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/news/2003...mod-chip-sales/
ekruob
QUOTE(JBmtk @ Aug 5 2007, 03:04 PM) *

The owner/employees if I can recall had to spend like 5 months in jail and pay a hefty fine.

Heres another story
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/news/2003...mod-chip-sales/

Since I assume the penalties have not been increased, FallsInc should get away with a slap on the wrist and a fine amounting to whatever they can prove he made out of the business.

If big-time modders and pirate-games sellers get 5 months, it would be unfair to impose anywhere near the same penalty onto FallsInc.


And for those above that are referring to what FallsInc did as a 'felony', then I'm sorry but you need an English lesson:

fel·o·ny
n.
1. One of several grave crimes, such as murder, rape, or burglary, punishable by a more stringent sentence than that given for a misdemeanor.
2. Any of several crimes in early English law that were punishable by forfeiture of land or goods and by possible loss of life or a bodily part.


What FallsInc. did, despite what Sony may propagandize, is classified by law as a 'misdemeanor'.
stopit33
But don't worry mom (stopit33), I own over %90 of N64 games and all of my orignal xbox games and movie dvds, but I don't need to prove anything to you (stopit33) any further. If you would like, I can take a picture of all of my crap with a little ripped out piece of paper with my name on it just so you can sleep better at home, tucked in in your bed which is of course surrounded by all of your original casing of movies/games/music.
[/quote]


its good to know that every one who uses XBMC (witch is an illegal program) uses it to stream there DVDs pleas tell me how you get past the copy protection on your DVDs so you can put them on your pc? I think that's illegal too?
Chancer
QUOTE
and chancer you are correct. but the fact that you say that only pirates should be prosecuted, tells me that part of you wish the xbox had legal homebrew. Hell, im pretty sure even though you moved on to other things you probably stayed with the xbox for a while to see what it could do

Oh I still have multiple modded Xbox consoles running various dashboards and apps. i know backwards way round what they can do but what i am saying is that was the interesting part of it all for me. It is a shame that this little avenue could be closed off because of people modding merely to pirate games, but I have to say i believe that is the major reason, but accept that not everyone does this. The people that do not are being punished for the majority that do. It's not fair but it happens.
JohnnyVegas
Bummer. That's a saaaaad story...
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah. sleeping.gif

Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.

It too complicated to get into.

Don't drop the soap.
stopit33
QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Aug 5 2007, 03:25 PM) *

Bummer. That's a saaaaad story...
Anybody here with a sad story raise your hand... yeah. sleeping.gif

Will a judge even go into this with you??? Nope. Not worth it IMHO. He will try and get rid of you as fast as can with some small time piracy crap they found in your bedroom and move along.

It too complicated to get into.

Don't drop the soap.


rofl that is so funy laugh.gif
halofun121
If Gates and Miyamoto were smart they'd let this shit go. But they have to make a big stink about it, it gets all over the news, and it garners publicity, enticing more people to look into it.

We can freaking build computers, mod cars, but this isn't illegal. How is it different? If anything, you probably have more pirates on the computer downloading music and burning discs. You probably have more people smuggling drugs in a car.

Yet it's funny. Mexicans cross the border every day, and the government is providing illegals with services that should only be held by citizens. What the hell is going on here? I don't condone illegal activity by any means, but I just love it when the government breaks their own laws....
beal209
This is why i stopped modding other peoples consoles its to risky. I had some on another site that I had never meet ask me to email Him a hacked bios for install on his chip because he didnt know how to use xbtool. I told him no then I stopped going to that website
mrpeach
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 4 2007, 05:31 PM) *


P.S its not pronounced "relist" since the word realist doesnt exist. youre supposed to say "someone who is realistic"
and the 360 hack in the right situation can run linux. why run linux on the 360? because its performance might beat the living shit out of your pc or mine once its fully developed(triple core 3.2 ghz goodness)


Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.

Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.
pirichios
QUOTE(mrpeach @ Aug 5 2007, 10:42 PM) *

Strange, dictionary.com lists both Houghton Mifflin and Random House dictionaries showing the word realist.

Speak not of that which you have no knowledge of.

i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. biggrin.gif
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform
stopit33
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 07:28 AM) *

i stand humble and corrected. I also stand flatered. someone registered on the forums just to correct a mistake i made. I should feel special. biggrin.gif
stopit33, xbmc isnt only for streaming videos. it can and will upscale your dvd's up to hd resolutions(yes your real original ones) it would be nice if you were a little more assertive and a little bit less dogmatic regarding other people's views. As for myself i do understand where you are coming from regarding the legalities of it as obviously we both know what they are regarding the software. what i argue is that homebrew on a console should be allowed. everytime you say anybody that has a modded console is a pirate, you are giving a stereotype. I feel it is an insult very close to racial slur in some aspects. as chancer said there are some people who love homebrew and they should not be punished because some break the law in more direct ways (i.e piracy of games)
btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform


I really do apologies for my assumption that every body who uses a moded Xbox is a pirate that was wrong of me sorry.
On the other hand my point is as far as I know it is illegal to chip/softmod a Xbox, and I know what a great program XBMC is as I use it myself, what I am trying to point out not very successfully is people think they can backup there bought DVDs to there pc and stream them using XBMC quite legally and that's not the case in most country's, the DVDs in most cases are copy protected and you need a program to sort that stuff out, you cant just put a bought DVD into your pc DVD drive and copy it to your hard drive, so in reality they are pirating there own DVDs as the law stands in most country's, I am not saying its a good law but it is the law and we cant pick and choose witch law we like.
ekruob
QUOTE(pirichios @ Aug 6 2007, 04:28 PM) *

btw xbmc itself is not illegal its the compiled developer kit binaries that are. a person with an xdk should be able to compile their own copy and be ok( though i could be mistaken)but im pretty sure the source code is not. One more reasone to see xbmc being ported linux(which is being ported by the way) and then it should be a 100 percent legal on that plattform


You are obviously unaware that:

1. Only games studios have legal copies of the XDK - so anyone outside of said studios cannot ever legally use them

2. GentooX has already had a valid Media Center edition available for some years now!

So for all intents and purposes no one can:

1. claim that XBMC is legal to run on their own Xbox.

2. claim there is not a legal Media Center alternative.


This is also important as this legality of XBMC applies to pretty much every country in the world... e.g. in Australia it is perfectly legal to mod your Xbox - yet you could still go to court for installing XBMC onto someone else's Xbox (and be convicted).

So be careful what you claim - installing XBMC is actually a worse crime (direct blatent breach of Copyright) than installing a chip (indirect breach of para-Copyright / meta-Copyright); both in the eyes of the law, and morally! :-P
80107
To the community,

This is an open letter to anyone who may help those affected on Aug. 1st. I was one of those directly affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I am hoping to join together all those that were affected buy these raids in support of each other. I am suggesting that we may possibly hire a single specialized attorney or law firm to represent us against any charges that may be filed against us. I have submitted an email listed below that I have sent to a couple of site owners that I believe were also affected. I am asking also for the help of the gaming community and others in these efforts. We will most likely need to compile a list of these sites and/or the people affected so that we may contact each other with ongoing information regarding our issues. I am also asking that a possible forum posting to help us all find a specialized law firm to defend us as well as a legal defense fund be set up for this law firm. It would be great if we could find a law firm that would offer their services at a reduced rate. Of course each of the defendants would each contribute to this fund as well. I believe that this may be the best and only way for us all to fight any charges that may be brought against us. I am not a rich man by any means. I live in a small house that is almost 20 years old and drive a 10 year old van. I am self employed and work alone. This is not some large business that has corporate jets to fly around in. The results of this raid may very well bankrupt me and I may have to start my life all over again. They have taken my life away from me and I don't know what to do and this is way I am asking for any and all help. I am not asking for any personal sympathy, just the help we all need to fight for our personal rights and freedoms that the government and other want to take away from us all. The actions of these raids and laws like the DMCA effect us all. I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.

Please reply or post with any help or guidance you can offer us. We really need the help from you and the public community to fight against these raids and any charges.

1) We need a list of the 32 that were raided.
2) We need a specialized law firm to help us.
3) Setup a legal defense fund and ask for community donations.

Those of us that were affected by the raids will each contribute to this fund and I will be the first to contribute, but I know that it will never be enough to fight any lengthy legal battle.

**Below is a copy of an email that was sent to a couple of known sites that were affect on Aug. 1st

Hello Site,

I am writing you because like yourself, I was also affected by the raids on Aug. 1st. I believe that all those that were affected would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.

I have hired a local attorney to help me individually, but believe that all of us would benefit greatly to pursue the hiring of a specialized law firm attorney that would take us all on in a single case against the government. We could all contribute to a single fund for this attorney and could even ask the public and community to help us in our defense by contributing to this fund. It would be an even

This is just an idea, but I believe from what I have read in the forums that the community could help us and rather than spending what little money we have on a local attorney that may not be knowledgeable enough in the specific laws, we find one that is. Maybe the gaming community and forums could help us in finding a knowledgeable and reputable law firm that would defend us? Just thoughts, but again I believe we will need to help each other in this time of need.

There are potentially 32 separate individuals that could form a single alliance to fight against any charges levied against us in court. Think about it and let me know your thoughts.
Another idea is to start a blog site for us all. It could either be a closed or an open forum and could even ask for donations to this legal fund. We may even inquire of xbox-scene.com and other forum/community sites for some help.

I really think that we all have to come together to help fight this. If you know of any others that were affected directly by these raids I would ask of you to pass this information on to them as well.
ekruob
QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM) *
I do not modify any game consoles, install any modchips or sell, make, own, download, distribute or offer in anyway game copies, rom's etc. My site has never condoned any illegal activities and warn everyone not to break any laws. My site has many disclaimers including the purchasers invoice against using any products, software, etc. in any illegal manner and that we will not be held responsible if they do use any item in an illegal manner.

Interesting - you should be better placed than some of the other 32 then... the fact that you only sold the chips will reduce your charges.

As long as your chips did not have any Copyrighted data on them (e.g. hacked BIOSes) then you could get away with the minimum penalty :-)

Do you have any priors?


Also, from the sound of both FallsInc and yourself, you two hardly sound like your average big-time chip sellers?! Surely there have to be 32 other gigs operating significantly larger ops?! Sounds like someone was having trouble tracking them down!
blueness
Sigh. Yet another abuse of tax-payer dollars.
I'm so tired of this administration and its 1950s mentality on EVERYTHING!
Again. A complete and utter waste...

And Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony shouldn't be casting any stones (or getting the US government to do it for them). They've stolen/manipulated/deceived/etc. as much as anyone over the years.

Then again, none of this is about ethics. It's about protecting one's position of power.

Despite initial scepticism, I liked the Xbox/Xbox 360 and I liked the Wii. Alas, at its core Microsoft, Nintendo and the US government are like the soil in Stephen King's "Pet Sematary." It's sour.

And will Steve Balmer please exile himself to another planet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc

Illegal fakes/clones are bad, but modding just adds value.

Sorry. This post is a bit of a random vent.

Good luck to those in the right and sorry for those in the wrong. Do unto others...
ekruob
QUOTE(80107 @ Aug 7 2007, 02:02 AM) *

would benefit by communicating with each other in exchanging any information that could help us all as a whole.


These make for some very interesting (and possibly useful) reading...

A bunch of Rhodes scholars examining mod legality:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...ns/2005/30.html


The same bunch of Rhodes scholars passing judgement in favor of said mods:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/high_ct/2005/58.html
twinsrock
Well, they went after some very small individuals, that's for sure. From what I've heard some sites have been very small but they still got nailed. You would think the reason they are going for them is because they are trying to gather information for the bigger fish, but most of them are outside of the U.S. The fact is it was way to easy to get these products (10x easier to get compared to drugs), which made it seem like this was not illegal in the first place. They should have been more strict about this in the first place so that people knew what they were getting into. If you talked to these 32 individuals, I bet the majority thought that by just installing a chip and not flashing it then it was legal. If there was a way for them to pull together, there would be a better chance to win the fight. Everyone has to start being smart about things and know not to say anything unless an attorney is present. People that talk w/out their attorney just are incriminating themselves.

Donations from others would be great as well.

Charging $60 on a game and not being able make 1 backup copy of it doesn't sound right to me. Gov. needs to start looking at more important things, illegal immigration, cartel, murders, prescription drugs, THE WAR IN IRAQ. That is why our country is so messed up, they make big deals about stupid things. The important things are looked over ever to soon. Everyone knows our precious country makes billions selling illegal drugs, guns, etc. etc. to third world countries, ever watch Lord of War or Blood money or talked to anyone who has seen this first hand? How do you think 3rd world countries get guns, nukes, etc. etc. and where do you think their knowledge comes from?? Well from us of course... And don't even get started with oil, things are so corrupt there it's not even funny. There are people in the military that have come forward w/ some crazy stories that show how corrupt things are but they are quickly silenced.

Sorry for the rant :-)
ekruob
QUOTE(twinsrock @ Aug 7 2007, 06:14 AM) *
They should have been more strict about this in the first place so that people knew what they were getting into. If you talked to these 32 individuals, I bet the majority thought that by just installing a chip and not flashing it then it was legal.



Yes, this blunt sledgehammer-style action sounds very draconian indeed...


BTW in Australia two things usually happen before something like this would even be considered:

1. For small-time ops, Sony (or whoever) usually pay a personal visit to the modder and issue them with a stern warning letter demanding that they cease operations or else they will be back with a warrant (along with a talk to them face-to-face). That at least seems slightly 'nicer' and fairer than a no-warning 4am raid.

It is obvious these raids were purely a media stunt.


2. The government has been forced into spending large amounts of money on advertising campaigns to ensure that the public is well-aware (or can be reasonably expected to be well aware) of exactly what is now illegal. From the sounds of things this has not been done in the US - and this may be a valid argument in court.

'If it is such a heinous crime - then why wasn't the public properly educated about it?'

Copyright (especially para-Copyright) law is not like other property law in that you cannot physically see the boundaries. In property law you can be reasonably expected to know when you are in the wrong - e.g. by breaking into property, by stealing a physical item, or by destroying someone else's property. These are all things that one can appreciate as being morally wrong. However unless you educate the public on the DMCA then no-one can honestly be expected to study it themselves. Here there is no fence to cross, no doors to break into, and no tangible chattel to steal - hence there cannot be expected for the general public to have an innate knowledge of where these invisible legal boundaries lie. This argument will hold up in court, and at least improve your chances of a lighter sentence if you can show that the government has not educated you on these new and intangible laws.

Or does the government over there count incarceration of innocents and the parading of them in the associated media coverage as the 'education' part?!
FallsInc
small update.

my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...

an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives) smile.gif

and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...

thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps. laugh.gif
jxl98c
Hi all,

This is a tricky one to comment on really. I'm not happy about seeing anyones life disrupted to this extent but it is clear that some things have gone on that aren't quite legit. but on the other hand I think some of what has happened is horseshit!

For me, the main driver for modding would be to run homebrew software. Now with XNA enabling the end user to write commercial quality games I have no reason to mod. and my 360 is as the day it was made (or returned from the warranty department as the case may be). If I want to faff around with hardware then I'd buy a PC and go down that route - on the other hand, I can see that there probably would not have been an issue if the mods being sold were to enable tilt control on a 360 controller?

To modify your own 360 for education is one thing, but to do this as a main income (presumably without declaring any taxes, etc.) is not quite the same. In the UK I think the tax office would be more bugged by this than anyone trying to claim copyright infringement. I guess the problem comes down to whether you were making the odd buck or had a $30,000 income from it and the state has missed out on a lot of taxes. This point is moot however if they try to do you for copyright issues, hopefully it is being used to gather information rather that prosecute you.

The trouble is, is that the general opinion of the non-modders is that modding is used mainly for playing pirated software, whether correct or not, we (or I) don't really have a good example of what you can do with a modded 360 that is legit. and really adds value to my system.

I'm sure that if every UK law was interpreted and my home investigated then I'd be writing a similar e-mail feeling hard done by about something, but I think realistically you have to put this down to bad luck and experience. I feel for you, and your family, and if it was me I'd be gutted also. As you said, you cooperated with the authorities and that should count for a lot. You could have quite easily have asked for a warrant and destroyed all of your stuff.

Good luck with everything, it's an awkward situation that's for sure.

Regards,
James
jmny6411
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 10:17 PM) *

small update.

my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...

an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives) smile.gif

and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...

thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps. laugh.gif


Was this definatley a sting? From someone who bought from you?

any news about your customer list-do you get the feeling that they are going after them? ( I know if you ask them directly they will give you a jerkwad answer just to keep them paranoid)
Sinner666
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 09:17 PM) *

small update.

my gf's mom cooled off, and now i can go back over there...

an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives) smile.gif

and just a note: they didn't really bust down the door or anything, they just woke everyone up really early expecting to surprise me i guess...

thanks to everyone that sent in a donation. every little bit helps. laugh.gif


Good to hear about the kid. Just remeber to keep your priorities straight throught all this crap, which means the kid comes first.

Also you do have a lawyer right? If so you might want to send him to pickup the stuff just in case...
Or maybe I have been on the forums too long and have an overly developed sense of paranoia....
sicknasty413
QUOTE(Sinner666 @ Aug 7 2007, 10:01 AM) *

Or maybe I have been on the forums too long and have an overly developed sense of paranoia....

You think you're paranoid? I hear a car door shut outside and I sprint to my window to see if it's a cop! unsure.gif
grim_d
QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ Aug 7 2007, 04:15 PM) *

You think you're paranoid? I hear a car door shut outside and I sprint to my window to see if it's a cop! unsure.gif


stop smoking crack then! ph34r.gif
Sinner666
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 6 2007, 09:17 PM) *

an ICE agent called me to say that can get some of my stuff back. (didn't say what it was, i'd imagine they are still looking at hard drives) smile.gif


Let us know how the pickup went and what you got back.
FallsInc
it was definitely a sting. an undercover agent ordered a modded wii from me, and they showed me the returned check when they were questioning me.

i got back a box, that had 4 empty hard drive boxes in it, and it had a few business cards from local PC shops in it, and they felt the need to take my high school ID card for some reason...

the other box has all xbox PSUs and other random parts, and some xbox hd caddies, and thats about it. they even came out and dropped it off. i do feel that for whatever the reason, this 1 guy is going out of his way to help me, cause there is no reason for him to drop off this stuff (that he admits that he doesn't understand why they took it), unless he genuinely felt bad for me (he could just have called me and told me to come pick it up just as easy). he's used to dealing with drug smuggling, and child pornography and border security, not some 20 something guy from northwest ohio thats good with a soldering iron.

lol, i forgot one thing. a sealed xbox monster component cable... sealed. who needs to investigate new in box cables?
reissy

You know what I say

HACK THE PLANET
80107

Help "Abolish the Digital Millenium Copyright Act" hosted on the web by the free online petition service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nixdmca/
agibby5
QUOTE(FallsInc @ Aug 7 2007, 12:49 PM) *


lol, i forgot one thing. a sealed xbox monster component cable... sealed. who needs to investigate new in box cables?


one word, WOW!!! I guess they were also caught up in the excitement, grabbing at any and everything they could. I never understood that part... how can they take stuff like that? I'm sure they still have stuff that's unrelated. Oh well, good luck! smile.gif
Sinner666
Since this seems to be the place to ask, anyone one have any updates? On FallsInc or any other cases?
Charges, arrests, indictments ... ?
Jynteral
Thursday, August 9, 2007
Mod Chip Raids: What Happens Now?

In the wake of the ongoing mod chip raids, I'm sure many people are wondering what happens next. So, whether you've been raided or are just casually following the story with an air of curiosity, here is a general overview of what can happen after the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement raids are completed. Of course, there can by any amount of time lag between these steps, and they can also occur in multiple different orders. In fact, some of these events can span years. Consider the following a general outline of the process that changes in actual application to most situations.

Phase I: Raid Aftermath
1. There is a raid, items are seized.
2. The seized items end up in a warehouse somewhere.
3. The ICE agents, along with the investigators and often the company who requested ICE enforcement examine the items and analyze their course of action. (In this case, it would seem that Microsoft, Sony, and/or Nintendo requested the raids since the mod chips theoretically affect their rights. Based on the press release, the ESA was also involved.)
4. This is the point in the process where there is typically the longest delay, while everyone analyzes their course of action. This would also be the ideal time for someone who was raided to retain counsel, before anything gets worse.
5. At this point, it is typically just an investigation, and no one has been charged or sued for anything yet.

Phase II: Initial Actions
1. During this phase, if someone is going to be released for lack of evidence or error, this is the most likely time. However, this may take some negotiations or arguments to get off free and clear, so to speak. If the party is released, the seized property should be returned in a reasonable amount of time.
2. The companies and/or the government may wish to enter negotiations for settlement.
3. The companies and/or the government may file initial temporary restraining orders or injunctions on those who were raided in order to prevent further activities.
4. The government may begin freezing assets or have warrants issued on future shipments.
5. During this phase, representation by counsel is probably the most important because it is still theoretically possible to avoid Phases III-V.

Phase III: Legal Action
1. The government may proceed with criminal charges, which can result in jail sentences and/or fines and/or forfeiture of seized property.
2. The companies may initiate a civil suit over the rights of theirs which were violated. This can result in monetary damages, permanent injunctions and/or restraining orders.
3. Counsel is necessary at this point. A public defender can be appointed for the criminal trial if the defendant cannot afford counsel.

Phase IV: Legal Outcome
1. If the defendant loses either of the above actions, the penalty will be assessed.
2. If the defendant wins, the property should be returned and the defendant can walk away free and clear.

Phase V: Counter Suit
It is possible for the defendant to counter sue on the civil matter, be that for defamation, anti-trust, or simple damages (this depends on the particular case). The government, however, is immune from suits of this nature in these circumstances.

Phase VI: Future Raids
What is important to remember is that a victory in this raid does not necessarily provide any protection from future raids. ICE may be back a year from now or ten years from now, and the particulars from this raid do not impact that future raid.


That is a basic outline of the process, and it is one that occurs in many industries frequently. While I personally still find it puzzling that the raids were on mod chip sellers rather than sellers of pirated games, as discussed in my prior post, the overall process should still reflect this outline. It is, unfortunately, a long, hard road after being raided by ICE.
buttface96
FallsInc, Appleguru, and all affacted by the raids; I cannot imagine the frustration you are experiencing by this event. I've worked with Appleguru ever since I joined the scene back in 04, and he has always been a tremendous help and honest seller, its tough seeing people whom have helped you in a skill, like a teacher to be tossed around and embarrassed. I hope all works out well for all of you


Mike
busteduser
I started off w/ a lengthy account of getting busted, but lost all the content some way through. I suppose I'll save it for a book or something anyhow. Having been busted, and just completed my sentence and finalized paperwork, I can provide some decent advice, and relate similar events.

1) As some have stated, bringing attention to yourself is bad. It is natural due to the absurdity of the punishment for the crime. Your desire to reach out to others as a warning is an admirable trait that demonstrates you care about your fellow man. Unfortunately it doesn't help. It could be construed as obstruction of justice and tampering with an ongoing investigation. If you're going to reach out, it has to be full fledged and hope the media can paint you as a martyr. Otherwise, everything you say here is damaging. If there is *anything* they can find illegal in the materials they confiscated, skip the martyr approach and STFU.

2) A good lawyer goes a long way. This case proves that money talks so fight fire with fire. Do the best you can do within reason.

3) You will never get your seized hardware back. I'm sure some of it will end up in some agent's home too. When they took my computers, they also stole my UPSs, monitors, printers, switches, network cables, keyboards, mice, mouse pads, speakers, and I feel like I'm forgetting some things. The final documentation mentioned nothing more than the computers.

4) You stated you're not charged with anything (yet). My case took 1 year before I ever got offered a plea, and that was only after it was expedited b/c a new D.A. w/ a reputation of being tough on "cyber-terrorism" was replacing the existing one. That waiting period was worse than any punishment I endured as it was mental hell.

5) Arguing this case would be difficult, expensive, and probably not yield results better than a plea. If there was anything illegal (other than the modchips) then you probably cant win fighting it. If/when you get a plea, examine it thoroughly for errors. Specifically with regards to timelines. I analyzed mine 100 times before agreeing, and didnt catch many of the errors until years later, as I was happy to see some of what wasn't in there. For example, one clause stated that "In a period of 180 days" I had done something. However, I had only committed my 'crime' for 60 days at best. The one thing I did catch and disagree with was that it said I made 'private financial gain.' I never made a dime and in fact lost a lot of money. When I requested this be removed, they said that the existence of a ratio system (ftp site) was a currency. However, I never utilized the ratio, as only the 5 users on my site were friends. I wish I had been more persistent about getting this detail removed. Anything you don't correct will bother you for life.

6) You mentioned something about a child porn case taking priority. Those delays are what took a year for my case to move forward. I heard all about child porn cases, serial killers, pedophiles. I believe they tell you these things because they want you to feel you're on an equal level to these people, subliminally. Don't let this phase you. My crime was a post 9/11 follow-up and as such, I was referred to as a cyber-terrorist.

7) Try to think about the details of what communications you had already, specifically regarding the sting operation. Did you sell the modchip or did you sell the labor? It makes a difference regarding 'private financial gain' I mentioned before. Did you involve anyone else in your operation that they know about? If so, they can tack on conspiracy charges. You can get felonies for each 'crime' as well as a conspiracy to commit such crimes, effectively doubling your charges.

8) If you can swing it, try to be awarded 'discovery' when your case is over. It's a report of the investigation, so you can know what they knew about you. If you don't, you could have a lot of unanswered questions. However, ignorance is bliss, so knowing could just frustrate you that much more. Your call here, but don't sacrifice something else for this detail.

9) Federal sentencing guidelines force a judge to sentence you within a range, based on a point system. His hands are tied, so even if, like in my case, the judge says "this case is bullshit" and says a lot of nasty stuff to the prosecution IN COURT, he can't do anything about it. There are four tiers. In the first tier the judge can opt for lesser punishments of probation/house arrest/halfway house. If you have X points then you get X-X+2 years of prison. I don't remember the specifics and I believe they've changed in 2006 and 2007.

10) Start NOW collecting character letters from friends and family. A character letter is like a reference for a job. Have someone write about a 1 page document pleading to the judge for leniency and describing your good traits. Collect as many as you can get. Read them all, and don't feel compelled to use them all. These letters will also reveal a lot about the people around you that you never knew, and what they think about you. You'll be surprised by both the great things, and sadly, some people who fail to provide them will surprise and disappoint you.

11) Your attorney should try to push the D.A. to request the judge for a "motion for downward depature" due to your cooperation with law enforcement. When they told you they had a better deal for you by surrendering right then, they "railroaded" you which is illegal. Of course, they'll never be called on it, thats just good work and a pat on the back. However, your lawyer should be able to use this to prove "substantial assistance." It may not be enough, in which case they may want to turn you into a mole for that condition. In that case, that's your decision you have to live with. You have to decide if you want to be a rat and live with that, or if you want to take your raping like a man.

12) If/when you have your day in court, be prepared for the moment when the judge will ask you if you have anything to say to the courts. This is not the time to blame the Sony/Warner for profiting from retail albums, while also making money when someone pirates using their internet, cd burners, blank cd media, and then suing them. Apologize to the court, your family, Bill Gates, Nintendo, the taxpayers, and state that you admit what you did was wrong (or at least that you knew it was against the law) and that you'd like to move on with your life and have a positive impact on society. If you can stomach it, the fact you have a new baby should be used as a bargaining chip.

13) If you're in school, stay in school. Get good grades. Get a job. Excel at your job. Prove that even in the face of adversity, you don't buckle, you thrive. It will give your lawyer one more thing to say about you, and you'll prove it to yourself as well. Plus, the workplace is another place to get character letters.

14) If your lawyer decides the plea is the best route, he may arrange a meeting for you and the agent(s) involved in your case. In this case, you're essentially confessing, and they'll write the plea based on some of this information. They'll probably have a human lie detector there too. His job is to sit there, not speak, and watch you and see not only if you're telling the truth, but if you'd be a credible witness. There is no need to lie here, but you don't have to volunteer anything they don't ask for. Also, these guys practice their interrogation skills and do some routines like you've seen on TV (good cop / bad cop). Don't be nervous, and keep this meeting light-hearted. You can even have some fun with it if you're a good conversationalist. Body language speaks volumes, and you can turn some of it back on them. If the investigative agent strikes a nerve or touches a subject you don't like, turn your body away from him, giving him less attention. Direct some questions and comments toward the lie detector. You can have a *little* fun with this. Obviously, don't overdo it.

15) Settle the score with your girl's parents. Remind them that you fathered their grandchild. Take the approach I mentioned for the court room. Admit that while anyone can agree what you're in trouble for is bullshit, you did know that you were breaking the law, and you're deeply sorry for putting your/her family through stress. Explain that you need the support of your friends and family most right now, and that anything less is unacceptable. I assume its the mother-in-law, as its always that dumb bitch lovely lady. Man up to the father-in-law, and tell him that you love his daughter, you don't want to harm anyone, and you just want the chance to be a good father like him. (Regardless of what you might think about him). I didn't catch if you're married, but if you aren't you might start considering it, as it will help matters in court as well. Furthermore, if you're in one of the few backwards states with the law still left, they can add "cohabitation" to your list of charges.

I have a lot more advice for post legal system, but this is a lot as is, and thats a while away. The advice and concerns I can give on living out your sentence would only bother you now more than help. Take care, be careful, stop talking on public forums that law enforcement (HI THERE!) reads. Google some breathing exercises and stress management techniques. This will be over one day. For now, read what I've contributed, and take steps to lead a productive life. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
busteduser
Sorry for the double post, but I didn't see an edit button.

I'd be careful about paypal and such. They've been known to freeze accounts especially with 'charity' cases as they have their own. You may want to transfer any donations as quick as they arrive. The gov did freeze my accounts which left me stranded, unable to get gas to get to work, unable to buy food, and limiting my ability to receive money to just borrowing cash from people physically.

Also, I realized I left some questions in my post that might compel you to answer them. Don't feel you have to do so publicly. If you want to talk further, you can pm me.
airthatkills
Hey falls , Im sorry to hear about the BS you have been put through.
I do have some questions that have never been answered but have thought about.
1. If I bought the hardware ,don't I own it?
2. If I don't own it and am only granted a license per se , then isn't my hardware under a perment warrarty?
3. If I do own the hardware and add a mod to it , isn't the mod a new type of software? and I am free to do as I please?


I always thought if I bought the harware , I owned it. Like my computer. Do you see where I'm going with this ?

Good luck
Brogen
property n. anything that is owned by a person or entity. Property is divided into two types: "real property" which is any interest in land, real estate, growing plants or the improvements on it, and "personal property" (sometimes called "personalty") which is everything else. "Common property" is ownership by more than one person of the same possession. "Community property" is a form of joint ownership between husband and wife recognized in several states. "Separate property" is property owned by one spouse only in a community property state, or a married woman's sole ownership in some states. "Public property," refers to ownership by a governmental body such as the federal, state, county or city governments or their agencies (e.g. school or redevelopment districts). The government, and, in particular, the courts are obligated to protect property rights and to help clarify ownership.

In reading forums about situations like this it appears that everyone forgot possesion is 9/10ths of the law. its bought, not leased or rented. also assumption makes a ass out of me and you both. to assume someone is going to pirate games, music, or movies is just as wrong. boycotting just dont get the messege out anymore. any system that was purchased should be left up to the owner what to do with it. i'm seeing the whole situation as property rights (property right - the legal right of ownership). but what truly amazes me not one person on a forum that i've seen has suggested a class action suit or a that lawyer hasn't seen the possibilities here. instead of waiting to be put on the defensive maybe its time for people to unite and bring the fight to whoever it may be trying to abuse this law that everyone feels is unjust.

i know i'll sign on for a lawsuit like that, but if ya haven't guessed it then i'll tell ya straight. i'm no legal expert, dont know squat about the legal system. i cant even find the damn shift key to use caps, but i do know i signed no contract saying i wouldn't pay to have a system moded or do it myself. cause believe it or not, noone here just wants a game system anymore. a entertainment system is what people want today. And i do believe everyone here was told that some things you have to do yourself. thats what drove these modders to tweak systems to the way they prefer them.

so i'll end with this note for those that are gonna call me a idiot or stupid. have you forgotten how to think for yourself without being told what to believe?
Corpmsan
I guess you can say that I "Work for the Man". My expertise involves post sentencing. You have received some good advice from some people and really bad advice from others. I would advise you to strongly consider taking a plea agreement if one is offered to you, and one surely will be because it is expensive to bring a trial to jury. I advise you to not even think about fighting this charge unless you have the backing of some organization like the ACLU. There was mention of gathering character letters... It has been my experience that character letters are useless unless they are written to disparage you. As an example, I just processed a case in which a man got 50 years to life......FOR PIMPING! He had 10 character letters written for him from women declaring him not to be a pimp. Draw from that what you will but that is only one example of hundreds.

When it comes to sentencing you will most likely have a Probation Officer prepare a report in which they opine about what your punishment should be. He will write about factors of mitigation (things in your favor) such as the fact that you cooperated and admitted wrongdoing early on in the investigation, you are a productive member of society (significant employment record, school attendance, etc.). He will also write about factors in aggravation such as previous criminality with increasing seriousness, failure to pay financial obligations like child support (this is kind of a big deal as the opposite could help to keep you out of prison. If you are a significant source of financial support for a child.)

One thing to consider is the fact that the crime for which you are charged is in evolution. What I mean by this is, there are clear wrongdoers when it comes to DCMA. These would be those who profit by stealing the intellectual rights of corporations, then there are those who simply want a legitimate way to insure their investments. This would include backing up software which was legitimately purchased. Usually with such societal laws in flux, the pendulum swings to extremes before settling on reasonable laws.

So what would be reasonable given the current situation you might ask. IMHO it would be reasonable to expect that if a corporation is providing you an intellectual property for use only, then they should be responsible for its repair or replacement for its intended lifetime. What is an intended lifetime? It can be argued that game consoles have a lifespan of 10 years while software and music has an unlimited lifespan. Anyway, that is just me opinion. One thing to remember in all of this is that there is NOTHING wrong with a company making a profit. If you think otherwise then you should probably be living in Venezuela or the newly reemerging Soviet Union. It is also important to understand that the United States works under what is called a Market System. Simply put, this means that most goods are traded under the supply versus demand system. If you feel that video games cost too much money and you want to stick it to the man by copying them illegally, then you must also understand the unintended consequences of your choice to do so. First, and most importantly, if EA fails to make a profit on selling games, then they will cease producing games. This means that there would be no more Madden Football or SOCOM and any other games that we all love to play.

This might all eventually turn into a system that models Linux. Where the ability to make video games becomes open source and people make video games for systems for the love of making video games and we all enjoy the fruits of their labors. Unfortunately for this to hold true then you can expect to pay about $2,000 for your Xbox and PS3. Trust me when I tell you that even though you may think that $500 is too much to charge for a PS3, Sony is actually losing money on every console that they produce. How can this be you might ask? Well it is because they make up their loss by charging licensing fees to software producers who in turn, pass that cost on to the consumers.

The modding community is unfortunately made up 90% of people who are like HIV viruses. Their actions will eventually kill their host (video game makers). Remember that increased supply results in lower prices but can only occur when there is increased demand.


/Steps off soapbox

ecampbell80
busteduser = Fed
mrmyrtle75
Jesus it is long


I just had a long ass post but I deleted it because I dont even think half of you people would get it anyway.

Sucks ya got popped man.....good luck
metaldawg321
I registered just to say this:
Our American government can be assholes, yet we have to deal with that. Sometimes, I wish shit like this would never happen. Did they literally like take all the good stuff away from you?
jaczar
dude, thats really fucked up, bc at a local gamestop theres a guy that asks if people would like him to mod their wii/xbox/xbox360 for them. tell them that they can download games and put them on their hd or burn them to disks and play them. theres also a pawn shop about 10 mins down the road that installs modchips and sells burnt copies of games.


and to think that they would pick you out of all these people to crack down upon. i mean hell they could go to the pirates like u said. but is modding actually illegal. does it condone anything illegal? its like installing a turbo on ur car. its not illegal and yet ppl do it to outrun police all the time. but id like to state that yes i live in the us. and yes i know lots of pirates... but the fact that they went after a modder is completely rediculous.


u should talk to someone and see if u can help crackdown on pirates instead of modders. and give them some info about the people in dalton that like to sell copies of games. tell them to check the local gamestop for people that do shit like that and maybe u can get some shit removed from you.

i dont endorce piracy myself and if there was some type of reward for that shit. damn right id turn there asses in. but the way i see it, it could help u.
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