You can leave the Triggers installed, and there's no real reason to remove them at all except for space concerns or just to make it look pretty. Just solder up the new LT button's wires to the LT1 and LT2 spots, then the same for the RT button and yer done for the Triggers.

For the buttons (only the buttons, D-pad, ABXY, LB/RB, Back, Guide, Start, Sync and the stick buttons) you can have just the one connection daisy chained around to every button and then to the Ground on the controller, and any Ground spot will do, TP2 or TP22 on the back of the board are good ones to use.

The Triggers are not part of the CG setup, so wire them up with the 2 wires per button as mentioned above. They do share a common connection between just them (the LT2 and RT2 connections are the same) but it's less confusing to just wire them up with 2 wires per, but either way it's the same deal when ya get it all done, correctly that is.

l ol come on now you have seen some of the things I've done to know I know better then that lol . Nah the problem is that there is NO power going to the 2nd player LED power pad, trace nor the point. I use my multimeter to test the ground and the power points. I can't get and Volts measurement. I am just getting a ground reading from both. I've test it on one of my other controllers and its not reading that way. There is something stopping it from getting power from the power point. All the other LEDs work fine. Its not a big deal but I am curious on how to get it to work.



BTW I figure out what was wrong with my new turbo controller. Remember how I asked about the Lights for the buttons? Well I wired it up and when I press one of the added buttons the light is dim. With the turbo off. With the turbo on they are bright. I am guess that is do to the low ground you where talking about like the added trigger buttons. How they only work with the turbo on...What I find curious about it is if I press one of the normal buttons the light will come on and be bright? I didn't wire the LEDs to the controller board. So I have no Idea on why that it working, but hey it something I wanted to do but didn't know how. lol So that is all working well . I'll upload a video of it soon.



Pic for 5Rivers79. See how the ground wire is connecting to 1 of every button leg.

Is the LED still on the board? or have ya removed it and then tested the spots? One side is Ground, provided this is the CG version controller we're talking about here, so it should read Ground. As far as the other line goes if it's reading to ground with the LED removed then ya either have that line shorted somewhere (solder splash maybe) or the MCU is shot on that pin, nothing ya can do if that's the case.

I musta missed it but where is the VIA for the wireless sync button? I saw the pic in Uisce's post but I can't tell which one it is.

I'm also having an issue where I can turn on the console by touching the common ground to the guide wire, then after the the system boots up, only the guide button wire, and LB/RB signal points respond to ground. If I touch the guide button wire again (to bring up the mini menu) then the d-pad and ABXY buttons respond, but if I go back to the NXE dash, the screen scrolls up randomly a few times and I lose d-pad and buttons again.

I'm connecting the controller via the recharge cable.

The only thing not working is the Up d-pad which needs resoldering so I may try the VIA from the guide, and LB/RB need to be reconnected.

Thanks.

Oh hrmm, we can use the original wireless diagram. SY2 looks easy enough. Is there SY1 on this board?

Nope, if you could use the Matrix diagrams you'd have a Matrix controller.

The Sync on the CG was the Grey trace, which I've now changed to Dark Purple as it was a bit too difficult to see in the pics as Grey, also made the pics 1024 instead of 800 so they can be seen better.

If you have the Sticks and or Triggers removed and the Resistors are not installed in place of them it will cause all kinds of weird issues.

yeah I took the led off to test it. yes the CG controller. Ground read ground and power reads ground. In fact if I take my multimeter and do a diode test. Placing the black lead on the ground pad and the red on the power pad it makes a ring. Same if I put the red at the pin point or on the trace of the power. The trace and around the power pad is clean. only solder on the pad, I am guess it would have to be the MCU. Like I said it wasn't a big problem just wanted to see it it could be fixed. Thanx again man

Thanks for the help, your explanaion makes it a hell of alot easier!!

Lastly, if i take the springs and the two trigger buttons out do i need to hot glue the trigger pots and the little arms so they dnt move?

Awesome. Thanks RDC, should be able to get it working now.

Hi!
I'm planning on making my own arcade stick using an xbox360 controller (how original!)

If I want a PCB with a common ground AND not to bother soldering a transistor or use another trick (but juste solder 2 wires) to use the triggers my only choice is an official wired xbox pad with new PCB, am I right?

If I got it well:
-Old PCB wired pad: separate ground + "simple triggers" (no transistor of chip to use)
-Old PCB wireless pad: same thing, separate ground + "simple triggers"
-New PCB wireless pad: common ground + "tricky triggers" (need to solder chip or transistor)
-New PCB wired pad: common ground + "simple triggers" <- only choice?

Any mistake?

Thanks for your answers!

Only the CL (newer Wired) or CG (newer Wireless) have a Common connection for all of the buttons, and only the buttons, but only the CG is Common Ground, the CL has voltage on it's Common Line.

You don't need Transistors for any of the Triggers on any of the controllers, ya just use 2 wires for each Trigger is all.

Thanks for your answer!

A friend of mine gave me a PCB which came from the CG version but he removed the trigger's potentiometers (and of course lost them....). I will need to solder some resistance and maybe transistors to use the buttons right?

Where are you getting this Transistor stuff from? You don't need to use Transistors at all, just use 2 wires for each of the new Trigger buttons.

The only reason you'd need to use Transistors is to make the controller completely Common Ground, and there's not point in that since you can get to both contacts of the new buttons and just use 2 wires per Trigger and yer done.

I have a question, was there another matrix controller revision? I have a whole bunch, which look just like the matrix except the back doesn't have the silver part on it, and actually some of the controller boards are different shades of green (though that doesn't matter). This may be the problem that I am having with my Rapid Fire controllers.

Also, is it possible to tell if the controller is matrix or CG from just looking at the box of a brand new one?

That 'silver part' is just the shielding for the RF board, they did the same thing to that component on the RF (RoL) board, it's not a different version per say, just doesn't have the shielding on it, most likely cheaper to leave it off and may make signal transmission/reception better.

With the different colors of masking that's just the different places they've been made or whatever color they were using at the time to spray them, they could be Red or Blue, wouldn't change anything there.

I consider a version change something major, a change in the way it works or has a bearing on how you'd did something to the previews version that doesn't work on the newer one, those 2 things aren't major and don't have any bearing on how the controller works.

As far as I know there's no way to tell from the packaging, but if ya get them from a place that sells a lot of controllers the chances of getting a CG are better, more so for ones that come with a PnC kit and from what I understand the Red ones are all CG, though I can't confirm that.

Thanks for all your answers RDC....and your patience!

any 1 know where the power is for the led for the xyab buttons and the x button thanx

Hey RDC, just about to prep my CG wireless board for the soldering to make the arcade stick. I understand its quite easy just to scrape the button contacts and solder the wires to them. However could you please tell me which contacts are the signal contacts as i dont want to scrape both the contacts for each button and direction because i will be using a common ground for all the buttons and dpad

If ya look at the pics only the Signal lines are traced out, and the trace that runs to that half of a contact is the one ya want to use, for Y it's the bottom half, B it's the top half, etc., etc.

So I followed all the diagrams, and the connections work as described - Thanks RDC. I've created a wireless joystick with this and ran into a little problem.

I'm using a perfect 360 joystick and made a voltage booster circuit for it. I have a transistor that turns on the circuit when the controller powers up. I thought that I could just highjack the sync button to the turn on the transistor, but it seems like the sync button won't source enough current to power it up. The transistor requires about 11 mA @ 2.5V (voltage from rechargeable batteries) to power up the transistor.

Anyone have an idea of a different signal source I can use for my transistor?

Thanks in advance

Using the ~3v that's on that line from the MCU to drive anything isn't a good idea, plus there already are switched voltage sources all over the controller more than capable of turning on a Transistor that ya should be using instead, which shouldn't need more than 0.8v or so to turn it on. What Transistor are you trying to use in there?

I have one of those P360 sticks and it's been sitting in the box waiting for me to get around to using it on a project I haven't even started on yet, except a few pics I took of it when it showed up here, but I did dig that thing out and mess with it a little bit after reading your post.

The P360 is designed to run from a 5v source, but nothing in there really needs 5v to work. The Hex Inverting Schmitt Trigger will work from a 2v ~ 6v source and the PhotoDiodes and LEDs in there don't need 5v for anything except to burn up, hence the Resistors in it, and that's about it for the inside of a P360 save a protection Diode for anyone bright enough to wire up the + and - backwards.



That protection Diode can be jumpered over right away (not recommended unless you know what you're doing) and will let the board in the P360 get another 0.8v or so because of the voltage drop there and after that it may work fine from the 2.4v to 3.2v the CG controller can provide after doing just that. If not, then changing R1, R2, R3 and R4 from the 220ohm they are to 100ohm should get it working, the one I have here is with a CG board right now. Checked both in the dashboard and playing some SF.

I'm using 2n2222 NPN transistor (something I was able to find in my parts bin). I'm running the p360 @3.3 V and it works fine. I would have changed the the resistor, but decided to just use a stepup circuit instead; I figured it would be a cleaner design if I ever needed to swap out the p360.

RDC, you mentioned that there are already switched voltage sources all over the controller, can you point me to a few? It would be nice if there's one on the battery side of the controller (that way I don't have to unscrew the thing to solder on a new wire).

Thanks

TP8 is the Analog line voltage which is 1.5v and TP5 is the same as the Headset connector spot that's just a shade under the battery voltage. Both are switched and either one is more than enough to turn that Transistor on.

Awesome! I'll solder that sucker up after work and finally get my game on in sf4. Thanks a bunch, RDC.

Thanks RDC! I just found your trace of all the circuits for the CG controller and it saved my butt. I had managed to kill the pad and the via for two of the directional buttons and was about to go buy another controller (I hate vias btw). I was able to get them to work by soldering straight to the controller chip which seems to be much easier in my opinion.

hello RDC and thanks for your guide on this i have my new xbox 360 CG wireless controller hacked and working perfectly for SF4.... for my next stick i wanted to add a pushbutton for the sync button so i can easily take it to other ppls places and stuff, im confused on where to start/solder etc... where could i look?

Thanks, but if ya read thru this entire thread, just the last few pages of it really, you'd already have that info, it's in here.

I've change one of my added buttons on one of my controllers to a bigger button. Now my controller will not sign to the xbox 360. The 4 lights just flash. If I hit the sync button on the controller and the xbox the light will do the circle thing and it will stop like it has connected to the xbox 360. The console lights stop too, but the controller is on sign on to play 1 or any other player spots. I've tried the controller on 2 xboxs and the same thing happens. I took off all the wires and it is still doing the same thing. I don't know what else to do any Ideas?

If you have the PnC cable plug that up and into the 360, that will force it to sync. Sometimes a controller will get tarded like that and ya have to go about it that way to straighten it back out. If it doesn't sync up after connecting it with the cable though it's hard to tell what the problem is, but on the CG it''s never good as everything is pretty much done on that one IC there.

yeah, I've tried that. Could I take the IC off of a non working CG to this CG? On the old one. The resister's pad was ripped of next to the pin 2 of the left trigger. So can use that for parts since I don't know how to fix that. There is no trace for the resister.... Could you point out what the IC looks like if I could swap it out.

You're way better off repairing the other controller instead of trying to swap that IC, there are only 2 on the board anyway, and it's not the small easy one.

There are no Resistors at the Trigger, just Capacitors, and they can be missing and not cause any issues. You'd have to have torn the trace or via up there to kill the Trigger, and that can be fixed a whole lot easier than trying to swap a 100 pin QFP.

ok yeah the C71 the left side pad was torn off and there are no traces that I can see. I can't remember if I've tried the controller out or not. Well I am going to try messing around with both. If I can't get the one with the sync problem working, you think I could send the controller to you and you try you luck?

If just the pad for the cap was torn off it should still be fine, the Via is before that anyway, so it missing isn't going to kill the Trigger.

PM me on the other thing, but the more ya mess with it the worse it is to get to the actual problem.

hey guys, im trying to make an arcade stick out of the cg wireless pcb and i'm a wee bit stuck about hooking up my grounds.

Would something like this work for connecting my arcade buttons? Apologies for the crudeness of my picture.

I am also aware that A and B are connected to the wrong pads in this picture.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2py88s1.jpg

many thanks in advance.

If you go wiring it up anything even close to that it's not gonna work, I don't even want to go into the many ways it's wrong, but I will anyway so ya can see what's wrong.

The Resistors are in the wrong places.

You have both Trigger signal lines tied together and also connected to every button.

None of the buttons are Grounded and even if they were would mess up the Triggers and keep them in the unpulled (off) position. The Triggers aren't part of the CG setup.


Now...

As far as the buttons go, they all share a Ground connection, which is why it's called the CG controller, use TP2 or TP22 for that Ground connection.

The Triggers/Sticks aren't part of the button setup, and while there is a ground connection there, it's not used in the same way as it is for the buttons, so the Triggers need to be wired up apart from that CG setup. If you remove the Triggers form the board then you need the 10k Resistors installed between LT1 and LT3 for the LT, then RT1 and RT3 for the RT. If you leave the Triggers on the board then you do not need the Resistors. The new Trigger button will get wired up to the LT1 and LT2 spots for LT, then RT1 and RT2 for the RT.

They are numbered from top to bottom, like they are in the pic..

2
1
3

Look thru the other controller threads to see how the Triggers should be done, it's the same deal for all of the 360 controllers, just don't pay any attention to any of the Ground/Voltage talk as far as the Triggers go and wire them up like the other controllers are, Resistor between 1-3, new button wired to 1-2.

wow i was way off then... sorry for posting such a poor effort but i was just a tad impatient and thought id have a pop.

1)so all the grounds on A,B,X,Y(and LB,RB) can get wired together and brought down to tp2 or tp22?

2)Ill check up on the triggers but its a 10k resistor between 1-3 and 2 is ground is connected to ground on the button and 1 is the signal?

3)when i daisy chain the grounds on joysticks micro switches do i connect them to tp2 or tp22?

thanks for the help. if I'm rite with those questions i think i can start trying to wire it up.


cheers.

You're still a bit confused.

1) Correct. All of the buttons share that common ground, D-pad, ABXY, LB/RB, LSC/RSC, Back, Guide, Start and Sync.

2) The 10k Resistor goes between 1 and 3. Ya are hung up on the ground here for some reason though, forget all about that as 3 is really the ground on the CG version controller, it's backwards of how the other 3 are, so 2 is really voltage. Just wire it up like the other controller are, not how the ground/signal gets wired up. 1 -Resistor- 3 and then 1 -button- 2.

3) TP2 and TP22 are the same, so take yer pick or use them both.

thanks man. You are god.

i've spent past 3 days searching the web and was just getting confused about the triggers and where the grounds go. Well seems like i can have a good effort at it now then maybe try some of the other funky mods on this site. Never even knew half the stuff on here existed.

Many thanks again.

So i have followed this tutorial to the T and have worked on two boards with no issues. Now that I'm working on my PCB I'm having an issue. I have removed the triggers/thumb sticks, I have placed the resistors on the triggers where they go, but for the Thumbsticks I lost one of my resistors so I'm only running 3 instead of four, also know I had to use the back VIA's for my D-Pad because I messed up some of the contacts in the front. Well here is my issue, I have tested all my buttons and all worked but one. When I go left, it thinks I'm pressing Down on the D-Pad. I have looked at the PCB's posted by RDC here over and over, and it is where it is supposed to go, it is not touching any other contacts. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

If everything else is indeed correct and it's a CG version board ya shouldn't be having an issue like that. Having only 3 Resistors is making it so the stick is pointing in one direction all the time though, ya need to fix that first and then see how it works.

Will do.

Okay RDC,
So I went ahead and added the resistor. Still goes down when I press the DL on the rear VIA. I followed it to the chip as you have displayed below and it still went down instead of left, I also touched the one to the right of it and it also went down. I have a feeling that one is down for the Dpad and the other is down for the thumbstick. So I have a feeling that this trace is incorrect. Can you please give me a hand with this? Thanks
I circled the one you say is left on the DPAD and that is where I have soldered on to.

Sorry, but everything on that diagram is 110% correct. On top of having made them up I actually use them, because crap all if I'm remembering all that stuff, even though I pretty much have anyway, and I've never had any issues. Also the X/Y axis for the sticks are on the other side of the chip, so if yer getting the controller acting like that ya either have something seriously wired up wrong or a screwed up controller IC.

I believe what you're saying so I guess I have something wired wrong. Would you happen to have any ideas what it could be? I ask you because you are the pro, I was just saying what I've tried that way you can give me the advice as you have. Please don't take it the wrong way. Also the X/Y axis has the resistors required.

Without seeing what ya did to it it's hard to even guess, but something for sure isn't wired right, crossed or who knows what kinda damage done from tearing up the spots on the front and just messing with the board in general.

If it was a short on the DD and DL lines I'd expect it to move down and left at the same time no matter which one ya pressed, which is the same thing as pressing down/left diagonally, but since it's only moving down that's not possible.


There's nothing that I know of that will cause the controller to move down when left is pressed, it's a common Ground controller, so the only thing common there between those 2 things is ground, each direction has it's own line, so it's really impossible for one to do the other unless something is really screwed up somewhere.

This still confuses me. So if I want to add extra A and B buttons, I can scrape the top of the board at the correct point and solder to that? And where will the other side of the button be soldered to? I know's there's a CG but where would be the best/right place to solder A and B, or even with X and Y???

Please help, thank you!




and is it necessary to put a resister in between the button and ground? What would happen if I didn't. All I want to do is add extra buttons

Have ya bothered to read any of this thread? or even that post ya quoted from? Since the answer is no, because if it were you'd know where the other side of every button goes, it's Ground, the G in the CG, C is for Common, as in shared by more than one. The best places to use for the Ground spots are right there in that post ya quoted also, TP2/TP22. All of the lines are traced out in the first couple pages of this thread if ya need to know where X/Y or any others are, specifically post #19.

The buttons don't need Resistors on them, only the Triggers do and only if they're removed, again has been covered before, so not putting them on there is exactly what ya need to do.

After kinda destroying a controller I actually understand a bit now. I scratched too hard into the board because my solder wasn't sticking. It was actually the B track so I'm gonna have to reroute it myself to rejoin the track :-S

Or alteratively scratch away at the button pads... but this will leave the normal buttons useless...

So the best way for adding an extra button, I need to scratch away at one of the little circles to expose the copper yeah? Solder to that right. Does anyone have any tips on soldering to such a tiny point becasue I don't want to risk messing up this controller any more.

Cheers guys

After kinda destroying a controller I actually understand a bit now. I scratched too hard into the board because my solder wasn't sticking. It was actually the B track so I'm gonna have to reroute it myself or something to rejoin the track :-S

The easiest way to add a button is to scratch away at the button pads... but this will leave the normal buttons useless...

So the best way for adding an extra button... I need to scratch away at one of the little circles to expose the copper yeah? Solder to that right. Does anyone have any tips on soldering to such a tiny point becasue I don't want to risk messing up this controller any more.

Cheers guys

Good luck, fixing a mistake is always more difficult than doing it right the first time. Depending on how damaged it is there you're only option may be to solder to the leg of the IC, much more difficult than soldering to a trace.


Practice, then practice some more, then when ya can do that type of thing without damaging it, practice one more time to make sure it wasn't a fluke and ya know ya can pull it off. Read the Trace Repair threads in the Tutorials section also.