Anyone else been having issues with divx/xvid files with 5.1 ac3 sound? It seems like every way I try to get this to work, while watching it streamed over a network hardline through WMP11, about every five minutes or so the video stutters/skips for a second or two and then it's fine. I've demuxed the video and converted the ac3 to a stereo mp3 and remuxed it and the whole thing plays just fine(I've done this on more than one source), so i figure it's something with the divx/xvid/ac3 "support" MS has given us. Any thoughts? I usually use VirtualDubMod for the muxing, is there a better program out there? I like to use divx/avid because I get almost realtime encoding with great quality, whereas WMV takes 12-15 hours to encode.

I have the same issue. WMV's even 1080p ones stream fine with no glitches. High Def AVI's will play for a few minutes they stumble the video and catch up. It seems like the audio isn't affected.

My setup is a dedicated machine loaded with HD Xvid/AC3 transcoded files using mencoder command line to transcode them. My network is wired on a gigabit backbone. The system properties of my computer while transmitting the file are less than 10% of processor and network. Oddly enough if I restart everything in sequence router-->switch-->computer-->360 I can usually get it to work perfectly. Then if anything changes like I play a game or I pause the movie to go take a wiz it starts all over again.

I suspect it is a processing power issue with the 360 as it happens much more frequently the higher resolution the video is. I haven't really delved into the bit rates or anything like that yet do to time but I when can I will post a reply.

I would really like to figure this out as I am using my set up to store all of my HD-DVD's I have been buying used on ebay. I rip them and encode them to Xvid/AC3. Most of them run between 4GB and 8GB for future burning to DVD or dual layer DVD.

Im having the same problem. File stuttering every 5 to 6 minutes. I made some tests and I figured it must have something to do with a "multi-part OPENDML .avi" while had no problems with simple OPENDML .avis. If there is someone who can fix this help would be appreciated!

Odd that it is Open DML. From what I understand that is the difference between AVI 1.0 and AVI 2.0 but I may be wrong. Most encoders give you an option to enable or disable OpenDML. I use mencoder command line so will have to dig and find out which switch turns it on or off.

Still no solution guys?
I made a clean install of all my codecs just be sure. No luck.
Still having 5 to 6 minute skips. Are we the onlyoneshaving this problem?

This is happening to me when watching stuff I've burned to a DVD too. Probably every 8-10 minutes. I can live with it- but it is annoying and I'd rather do without it!!!

I get it about every 20 mins. It only happens on my 5.1 HD Divx videos.

I too have this issue. An AVI file with XVID and AC3 will stutter in the exact same locations ever single time and always to the same degree. The sound plays fine but the video studders. I have several xvids at 720p with AC3, around 3gigs(they look absolutly amazing at 3gigs). I have tried lowering the bitrate all the way down to 1K and the problem still exists. I will now pull the sound all together and see what happens. Also will do some MP3 conversions and see what happens. But I want 5.1 with HD so if this cannot be worked around then I'll be forced to use the crappy WMV format at a higher bitrate and bigger file size.

Also the OpenDML allows AVI's to be bigger than 2gig's so you need that in there. But can you see if that is in fact an issue?

I came here cause I have been working with the guys at doom9 on the AutoMKV program and found his program to be near perfect for converting anything to xvid including HD vids, but I came accross the same issue here so it looks like it is not tied to his program.

I am in the same boat as all you guys. I was pulling my hair out for about 2 weeks until I finally came to the conclusion that the 360 will simply NOT play any Divx/Xvid file with AC3 sound without stuttering in the same exact spots everytime. I only had 1 movie that I was actually able to keep the AC3 sound in, but it was a cartoon so who knows it if really utilized all the channels to begin with. If anyone has found a way to keep AC3 sound in Divx/Xvid files please let me know. I have made AVI from 1GB to 4GB and they all have the same stuttering problem. I wish there was just a way to keep 5.1 sound in my movies.

Testing Hd xvids(720p) less than 1gb worked with 5.1 dolby surround. I wrote xbox support and still dont have an answer. Basically, we are still stuck with wmv-hd.

I have an idea on what might be causeing this and will be testing my idea this weekend, so expect an answer on monday..... I think I know what is wrong, based on the WMV-HD issues with the 41sec skip :-) I might have it!

Hey guys,

I've been banging my head against this problem for awhile now and haven't come up with a solution. Whether encoding with DIVX/XVID the problem persists if you have 5.1 AC3 sound. (Just as you guys have already discussed)

Now at one point I was trying a bunch of different things and rather then re-encode the whole movie I just did the first 15minutes encoded a bunch of different ways. Every single one of the 15 minute encodes worked without a glitch. (Normally this particular movie glitched roughly every 4 minutes)

I'm encoding a 30min chunk now to see when I hit the problem. (I've already done half the movie and the problem shows up)

The other interesting thing is how GSpot responds to the file. It says the 15 minute chunk is a normal DIVX file etc etc but my full movie is marked as having "Garbage" at the end.

I've also made the mistake of encoding AC3 but 2ch Stereo and of course it works without any issues. I've been trying for WEEKS to figure out how to get this going, I do NOT like the 33hour WMV encodes versus 3.5 hours for DIVX and I certainly can't tell any quality difference.

If anyone would like me to try specific combinations or has any ideas just let me know.

Thanks all,

Septurious

ok over the weekend I did a typical encode with AutoMKV, and TMPGEnc. both produced the same stuttering i nthe exact same locations in the movie.

I then moved the AC3 track back 1 minute so it is one minute behind the video and the stuttering remained in the same place. I then ripped the AC3 out and played the movie and it was fine. I interleaved and no-interleaved the audio video, still nothing.

so far it seems that if the bitrate is CBR at 1000 it works at 1100 the stutter appears. If I attach a high bitrate MP3 VBR it plays fine.

I decided to create a blank AC3 file and see what happens. No stuttering occured. Then I put two channels in it and the movie played fine. I added the LFE and boom issues. I removed the LFE and added one rear ch and boom issue appeared. So it seems that there is something going on with the AC3 decoding capabilities of the 360.

All that testing was with xvid. This week I am going to use the divx codec to encode and then add the AC3 via nandub and see what happens. There is no much a differance between the Divx and Xvid codec, but maybe just maybe I can get some other results....

FYI I tried several encodes with 23.976 and 29.976 framerates and there was no change.

Hey guys,

I did some tests this weekend and ran into two things.

1. My 45 minute encode worked like a champ, no errors no glitches 5.1 sound. From GSpot it is described as:
File Length Correct
DivX Style "packed bitstream" AVI
OpenDML (AVI v2.0)
Interleave: 1 vid frame (42 ms), preload=512
Audio frames: Aligned on interleaves
Video: 1.21 GB (89.02%)
Audio: 150 MB (10.76%)
AVI Overhead: 3.09 MB (0.22%)

2. At 57 minutes (A different encode) the 360 quit playback of the file saying it couldn't play it, I had to back out of the video menu then go back in click on the file, click resume and could continue watching it.

3. I did several encodes today from 56 minutes ranging up to 80 minutes and at 80mins GSpot treats the file differently and you get:

File Length Correct
DivX Style "packed bitstream" AVI
Multipart OpenDML AVI (2 parts)
(105016 frames in first part, 14985 frames follow)
Interleave: 1 vid frame (42 ms), preload=512
Audio frames: Aligned on interleaves

I'm going to try and see which of the files works without glitching tonight or tomorrow. I'm wondering if it isn't something with a long encode and if done in chunks and then glued together afterward would help. Though I'm sure you guys know more about how all this works then I and could possibly explain what's happening.

Iskondi

Let me give you a little history. AVI containers were created by microsoft back in windows 3.1 and had then a very limited amount of space. As time went on MS continued to update the container until they dropped it for the ASF container(mainly created for streaming) well that did not go over well for video archiving since the video would be served from a local harddrive and the ASF was designed for streaming. Then MS created the WMV container that could do both streaming and archiving. So in the light of WMV MS found no need to develop the AVI or ASF containers anymore. So the AVI container was stuck with a 2Gig file size limit. Well that wasn't working for those that used the Xvid and Divx codecs, so they went to work to fix it and created a way that will allow the AVI container to run over the 2Gig limit hince the openDML you are seeing. OpenDML works for the most part but masks the true AVI contents when it passes 2gigs, cause it actually takes the two or more file parts and melds them together. Now I could be off on a few things there, but it is basically just a run down.

So now that you have seen the openDML you have seen the issue. I just found it last night while running the encode through TMPGEnc. There is an extra tab that will allow you to set a container size upto 4gigs. Also after loking into this it seems to also be an issue with XBMP from back in 2004, not sure if a cure was found, but we can try putting the Xvid file Divx container and see what happens.

Ahhh that totally makes sense about the openDML but what about seeing this type of thing in GSpot when you look at the "full" file?

Note: 1.00 GB unneeded bytes at end of fileMultipart OpenDML AVI (3 parts)
(63317 frames in first part, 158578 frames follow)
Interleave: 1 vid frame (42 ms), preload=512
Audio frames: Aligned on interleaves

The file is right around 7.3gb in size and GSpot doesn't seem able to "analyze" the video like it does with the non-openDML type file. (Like the info below)

Video: 1.21 GB (89.02%)
Audio: 150 MB (10.76%)
AVI Overhead: 3.09 MB (0.22%)

So TMPGEnc will allow you to up the container size to 4gbs? That would certainly help but with many movies going past the 4gb mark wouldn't cure the problem entirely correct?

If I wanted to try joining several of these together myself outside of Virtualdub is there a program that you would recommend?

Good stuff!

Iskondi

Ok first read up here on some issues with openDML http://www.alexander-noe.com/video/amg/en_about_opendml.html then go here and read through all the issues that they had with the XBMP http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/229672 that will give you some insight as to how crappy and shoddy the openDML extention is.

I have however made a small breakthrough. I have produced an Xvid-HS(1280x544) vid with AC3 5.1ch that does not skip! BUT....... it is not smooth, you can tell that there is a framerate issue in there somewhere as it kinda skips a frame every 4 seconds, it is noticable, but not entirely a killer... My problem with this output is that it is not perfect, and it uses VBR with spike in the 12000k range and the movie never skips a beat. so now I have to figure out why the video is skipping one frame every 4 seconds or so.

I use nandub to meld Xvid and AC3 files together. it is super easy and takes no time at all.

Also MS resonded to my question as to the skipping in Xvid AC3 videos and they said "We have no issues using our encoding method and keeping within the bitrates provided in the December update FAQ."

well now I emeailed them back asking them about there method and what length the video was, we shall see what they have to say about that.

I'll read through those posts in a moment but was interested in how you're doing your movies. You're encoding video with TMPGenc correct? And how are you created the VBR AC3 5.1 file? I'll take a look at nandub.

lol and Microsoft's response is so very Microsoft, if they'd freaking tell us how they encode it then it would be a bit more helpful.

I've taken Batman Begins and split it into two parts, the first at 70 minutes is 2,131,925,694 bytes is NOT openDML and plays back without any glitches, the 2nd part is smaller and also plays back without issue, however, if they are combined together into an openDML AVI then voila you have glitching.

So it's pretty obvious that there is some sort of issue related to openDML, AC3 5.1 sound and the Xbox 360.

I'll post back after reading the threads you mentioned.

Iskondi

Ok, so stupid question time number 2. After reading the links that you posted I have to ask, is there a way to encode the AC3 5.1 audio using Microsoft's AVI Mux Filter?

Or is there a way to tell AVI-Mux GUI to encode it in the same way? It stands to reason that Microsoft has probably put their stuff on the Xbox 360 and if they'd like the AVI to have 33% more overhead so it'll play without any glitches, I'm willing to try it and see if it works :-P

Until then, I think I'll stick with my split up non openDML files and combine em back together if we figure out a fix.

Iskondi

I muxed my AC3 file with my vid file in nandub. Nandub has a special selector for AC3 and MP3 and such so it makes it really easy to do. For my DTS sources I use DTS2AC3 then take the AC3 file and mux it. As for muxing in other programs I'll give it a try.

Also they talk of openDML V1 and V2 and V2 seems to be the way to go, but I'm still digging for info on what programs actually use OpenDML V2.

I want to work faster on all this but during the week it is had to as I work so much. and the next few eekends will be rough with family coming and all, no time. I will work on it when I can though cause I really want to wrap this up!

BTW they are also saying that openDML V1 will not play on stand alone players but V2 will, so I am working with the ways that they create thos files, to get V2. This is all to frign ridiculas, someone should just step up with info on where to get all this V1 and V2 crap from.

Check this out.

This page talks about OpenDML and what it's for. Just did a quick search. Don't know if you already have seen this.

Hey Chrislynch,

That's actually exactly the link that reddragon72 pasted a few posts earlier :-)

Iskondi

Ok tested

nandub
virtualdub
virtualdubmod
and some stupid muxer program that caused more problems than where we are now.

none of them made any differance.

I'm putting two and two together, and forgot, that the same video paired with MP3 plays fine, but the AC3 is what is throwing it off. So now I am looking into timings of the AC3 comparied to the Mp3. What makes the 360 stutter every 5 to 10 minutes with an AC3 that and MP3 will not cause. I am going to focus on that rather than this container stuff. It could be possible that openDML has issues with AC3 tracks, so I am also going to focus on that.

Well the 360 doesn't have a problem with all AC3, ONLY 5.1 surround sound AC3. If there was a way to encode 5.1 surround MP3 files and that worked then there would be nothing stopping me from switching off of AC3. *Sigh* So frustrating! I'm assuming Microsoft never got back to you with how THEY encode 5.1 Surround sound AC3 DIVX files without glitches?

Iskondi

Sorry about the wait, but a long weekend and lots of family over.

Ok yes MP3 does do suround sound 5.1 channel and has been able to since around 2004 or so, but the codec is very scarce and none existant. Even if you put the MP3 with 5.1 into the movie the 360's codec will not know what to do with it and wont play it. I already thought about that and would love to run a test, but it seems that it is just to hard to find a MP3 surround encoder now, since it never really went over well.

Nope they haven't got back to me and I dought they ever will.

*Sigh* Ok so MP3 5.1 surround sound is a no go. I'm assuming that WMV encodes with 5.1 surround sound use a Microsoft codec that you can't use unless you're using WMV?

So the only way to get it working with 5.1 and no hoops is WMV encodes which of course take crazy amounts of time to encode. Jeeeeez.

I'm not sure what else to look into or test, if you have anything you think would be good to take a look at let me know and I'll poke around with it.

Septurious

well here is what we have. openDML is somehow causeing issues with AC3 but only with 5.1 channels. create and AC3 with 2ch and all is good, also MP3's work and so on. Cut a movie into chunks less than 2gig each with AC3 5.1 works, but combine them and you get the stutter issue. so it all leads to the openDML. I have read all about openCML and there is nothing at all that would stop a AC3track Xvid movie at any size from playing, as we see it works on our PC's. So we are left with the AVI container handler on the 360 that is the issue, it simply cannot handle openDML AVI files properly, and I am sure that there will never be a fix. The work around for us is to chop up our movies, but then we are left with watching a movie and then jumping to another part in the middle of the movie.....

unless MS decides to fix this issue, which I have reported, we will never see proper implamentation of AVI containers on the 360.

Sounds correct to me reddragon72,

I've done the same as you and come to the same conclusions.

1. If you don't want AC3 5.1 Surround Sound it will work with AC3 2 Ch.
2. If you divide you movies so they don't run into the OpenDML container they work fine.

I have a few movies divided into Chunks and they playback fine with AC3 5.1 but as you said it's frustrating to play them back, but more, it's frustrating for me to figure out how many pieces I need! *Sigh* Annnd I have to setup several different AVS scripts to run through em all etc etc, it would be easier to just encode the stupid things to WMV.

Now I know if you stream the file from your PC as an AVI it has the same behavior, but has anyone tried doing the on the fly conversion to WMV while streaming? Or did that process not have 5.1 Surround Sound?

I too would be highly surprised if Microsoft ever fixes this which means the AVI container for HD w/5.1 surround sound is dead :-(( That really sucks.

FINALLY!!!

I found someone (actually more than one someone) who has been having this problem. I've been struggling with this for several months...all along thinking it was my NAS box streaming solution that was the problem.

Oh well, guess I'll wrestle with the decisions on how to handle; either convert my existing movie collection to AC3 2ch, split files, or even perhaps abandon the Xbox and move to the PS3.

Glad to have found this forum and thanks to all for all the research and testing that has gone on....much appreciated.

no prob. we all worked on this and all come to the same conclusion, if it's broke MS wont fix it! HAHAHAHAHA

BTW still nothing new on this front MS informed me of only one thing and that is that the files they tested with were well below the 2gig maximum which is why they are not seeing this issue. I did reply telling them to retest with a full movie not a cut so they can see this issue. No reply yet and going on 2.5 weeks since my reply. will update if anything new comes up.

You video is skipping because you have applied frame rate conversion, i would think you have converted a 23.976fps video to a 25fps video, for this frame rate conversion the encoder has to insert a duplicate frame or 2 to pad the video upto 25fps, generally i would pretty much leave the frame rate alone, unless for instance it had to be convert from a ntsc film to a pal dvd which would require a frame rate conversion...

anyway getting to my orginal intent for this post, i do not think the skipping issue is to do with a bug in ac3 5.1ch audio i think it is a issue with the hardware itself, My transformers HD DVD rip 11mbps 1920x800 256k mp3 (behaves the same with ac3 2.0 and 5.1) 12gb avi that exhibits these issues, even if i reencode at 1280x534 at high bitrate it skips, it seems to stop skipping when the bitrate goes low, below about 6-7mbps it must be a hardware constraint, either not having enough memory or gpu not being fast enough to decode and playback a high bitrate video, even my Pentium D 3.2ghz 2gb ram 512mb ati 2400pro pc has problems with video at this res and bitrate

well as said splitting the video into 1.9gig segments fixes the issue or removing the AC3 track and replacing it with a MP3 track fixes it. With that said it is not a FR issue, and it is not a bitrate issue, it is infact a broken codec issue on the 360 and to this end there is no way it will be fixed. Simply split the video into smaller parts or use WMVHD.

Red, do you know an easy way to convert Divx to WMVHD, or even DVD's to WMVHD? I haven't come across a program yet that could do it in one step. I really just want to be able to start converting my DVD library to something that I can stream with 5.1 audio.

there is no one step conversion and anyone that tells you this is full of it, and they are producing subpar picture quality. There are a few programs out there, but to stop you from comming back here beanging your head cause it is not working I am going to suggest ChrisLynch's way. It is very simple and works for my 100% of the time, and I have never been dissapointed.

here is the post.
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=639697

get all the programs from various locations, I cannot help you with that due to copywrite issues, and have at it, like I said I have had a 100% success rate with this. It is timely, but if you want quality then this is the way to go, if you are in a hurry then google the crappy one steps, and I mean crappy in a literal sense!

Thanks Red! That will definetly get me started. I am just banging my head against the wall here on making 5.1 good quality movies of my collection. Hopefully one day Microsoft fixes their codec

I am glad I found this post....I have been going crazy trying to troubleshoot the cause.

OK slightly less technical solution that I came across which solved it for me at least, that may or may not help some people. Although I would like to state that I only playback 1.45gb Xvid's with AC3, by the looks of it most of you are using much higher quality rips than this.

When I used to use an 250gb external IDE (7200rpm) 3.5" HD plugged in to the Xbox USB I used to get the stuttering issues... However since swapping to a 160gb Maxtor Onetouch Mini USB powered 2.5" external HD (5200rpm) the 1.45gb AC3 rips play perfect, the only film I did get the stuttering with was Southland Tales which was like 2.1gb.... so file size does seem to play a role in this case.

I'm no expert on hard drives or the technical side of video playback but I was thinking maybe my problem was solved due to the reduced surface area of the platters in a 2.5" drive and therefore quicker seek times?

Although the 2.5" HD on paper is in fact the slower drive?!

Any update on this? I'm having the same issue, and really struggling trying to find an easy way to convert my Xvid/AC3 files to WMV with surround. I posted a link to here on the xbox 360 forums, but they erased it saying links to "hacking sites" aren't allowed.

Having same problem but might be able to help.

The problem is caused by attempting to pass a digital signal through an analogue output.

It's nothing (as far as I can tell) to do with the video bitrate. I have been experiment with the xvid decoder FAIRUSE, and have found that all my xvids work in both analogue and digital output.

Apart from 1 type.

384kbps AC3

448kbps works fine - I've got an Xvid in AC3 5.1 of Transformers, Quantized to 2 at around the 3Gb mark. Plays beautifully.

Harry Potter (2, 3, 4 and 5) are same Q, around 1.9Gb. But stutter when pushed through analogue.

These have a 384kbps AC3 5.1 track.

1. Sort of useful Solution (takes around 7 mins to re-encode):

VideoDubMod - (Open Video) - Audio - Streams - Stream List - Interlaced - 160ms Preload, 160ms Frame Interleave - Full Processing Mode - Video - Direct Stream Copy - Save as.

Unfortunately, the file size increases exponentially, but it works in analogue. This re-interlaces the audio with the video at a more efficient rate (and adheres to AC3 32 frame standard).

2. Works Every Time Solution:[b]

Don't re-encode,
Output video to SVideo / Component / Composite (don't plug in the audio cable)
Output Audio to Digital (Optical or Coaxial).

Job Done. (For me, anyway), but best of luck.

Hi,

Thanks for the info. So will this work if I was using HDMI?

Also do you have a solution to have a MKV to playback on the 360 with 5.1 sound?

Thanks,
Kenn.

Well, I'm already using optical audio output so that's not my problem. I don't see how that would make the video stutter anyway. Maybe I'll try reencoding a movie.

Unfortunately reencoding the file didn't help me, but my problem wasn't an analog output so maybe we're seeing two different problems. :/

Still no fix for this?

Besides having to re-encode ac3 audio to stereo.

I had problems with a xvid encode that had AC3 5.1. (Played via WMC, xbox 360 extender)

I encoded the audio to AC3stereo but still had slight stuttering.

I look at their specs and it seems to me it is mp3 only for xvid .avi For h264 it is faac stereo only. But also I think the problem only occurs with encodes with high resolution. So AC3 audio and high resolution, 720 or above, then stuttering occurs. It happens with HD tv rips and some high quality movie rips.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945416

I re-encoded the uadio to mp3 stereo and video still occasionally stutters.

It is mostly in panning shots, it is a slight judder and only happens with some avi's.



I dont think stutter has to do with AC3 audio, that is a red herring.

I think it is to do with the video settings, most scene rips work fine, this one cause me trouble because he dosnt use scene standards. it looks good but it causes playback issues.

General
Complete name : Tinker.Tailor.Soldier.Spy.2011.R5.DVDRip.XVID.AC3.HQ.Hive-CM8.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 1.79 GiB
Duration : 2h 2mn
Overall bit rate : 2 093 Kbps
Writing application : Nandub v1.0rc2
Writing library : Nandub build 1853/release

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP : 2
Format settings, QPel : Yes
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode : Packed bitstream
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 2h 2mn
Bit rate : 1 700 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 304 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.311
Stream size : 1.45 GiB (81%)
Writing library : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 2000
Duration : 2h 2mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 335 MiB (18%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 40 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms