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Full Version: Tutorial: Heatgunning Without Damaging Anything
Scenyx Entertainment Community > Xbox360 Forums > Xbox360 Hardware Forums > Xbox360 General / Hardware Chat
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Wilhelm_I
Heatgunning the mainboard is a risky thing as it will definitely start smoking if you dont isolate it properly most people will have noticed that already.
I heatgun all the boards before I replace the X-Clamps and played around with different isolations(rockwool, aluminium foil etc.)
This one was the cheapest and best in my opinion though because I didnt have to clean the mainboard after I was done like with the rockwool and it is much better to handle..

Well what you need:
- Completely disassembled xbox 360 mainboard(always remove the heatsinks or you can trash the board after you reflowed the solder...)
- A heatgun obviously
- Some aluminium foil
- tape
- Some thick plastic foil(like on the picture, the thicker the better)

The pictures were resized so just click one to see the high def version of it...
Well lets start...

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This is the foil I used

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Then cut out a hole for the CPU etc

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So that it looks like that

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Then fix it with the tape and make sure you close everything so that no air can come through...

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Same procedure for the other side, cut and fix with tape

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Use some tape to fix the rest on the backside, dont put any foil over the holes of the screws though cause it will melt then

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Then cover everything with aluminium foil make sure that there are no holes again

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Now you are done. Get your heatgun and use it on the lowest step to warm it up for a minute. Never keep it at the same spot, move it over the whole area in circles. Then switch to the next step (thats a 500°C for me) and heatgun it for another 3 minutes.
The solder get a golden/yellowish glance when it reflowed, then you are done. Also make sure that you never move the board or accidently hit the table while you are reflowing it because this might fuck it up completely...

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Then let it cool down for at least 45 minutes and after that carefully remove the aluminium foil and the rest of the isolation. You will see that the plastic melted but the most important components are still covered(like the big caps). If you still got the time turn the mainboard around and heatgun it from the other side as well thats what I always do but the first time should have been enough already. On the backside you wont have to isolate anything as there isnt anything that melts at low temps just watch out for the plastic parts(you shouldnt be anywhere near them while heatgunning though because it is not the area that you want to reflow...)

Now you are done, congrats!

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This is a little example of what happens if you dont isolate it properly...
On the right side I only used aluminium foil, the big caps that the arrays point at melted at the bottom and the top is burned and raised a bit. If I wouldnt have stopped when they started smoking I bet they would have blown up...

I hope the tutorial helped you if you have anymore questions though just post a reply or send me a PM...

It would be nice if a moderator could move it to the Hardware Chat forum because I was to retarded to notice that I was in Xbox360 Case / Hardware Modding.
Thank You smile.gif
redwolf
great tutorial...thx smile.gif
meduquaine1
Should you foil anything while just heating the bottom of the board?
redhound12
its best when reflowing to use some spray rework flux this helps the process,also for a chip the same applies but a fine tip iron and a good magnifing glass will work and the flux helps prevent solder bridges.
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(meduquaine1 @ May 25 2008, 07:13 PM) *

Should you foil anything while just heating the bottom of the board?

Nope you dont have to isolate anything then because there arent any big caps but watch out for the buttons and the connectors because they might melt as well if they get too hot. So never direct the heatgun at them
bonzof.pl
Portugal smile.gif brazil? http://youtube.com/watch?v=8dowXG7wZ4Q
grim_d
i hope you arent heatgunning for customers before replacing the x-clamps, cause if you are you have no idea if you acctually fixed the problem with the x-clamp replacement.

If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 25 2008, 10:00 PM) *

i hope you arent heatgunning for customers before replacing the x-clamps, cause if you are you have no idea if you acctually fixed the problem with the x-clamp replacement.

If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.

Well I started fixing them like a 10 months ago for friends and family and lately I am also doing it for customers, I work in one of these modding shops.
I do it like that, when I get one I first check the errorcode etc so that I dont waste time on unnecessary things.
If it is actually GPU related I remove the X-Clamps of the GPU+ the screws etc so that I only have the plain heatsink
Then I start the 360 with the heatsink on, most still ROD then. Then I put some more pressure on the heatsink and try to boot it again if it boots I know it is one of the solder joints. Then I heatgun it properly from both sides like described here and apply the X-Clamp replacement afterwards. So far none of the 360s that I fixed like that have RODd again, I know that it is not such a long time range but this method has worked way better than the X-Clamp replacement did. Only with the X-Clamp replacement most 360s RODd again after 3weeks-5 months
Shareef187
QUOTE(grim_d @ May 25 2008, 09:00 PM) *

i hope you arent heatgunning for customers before replacing the x-clamps, cause if you are you have no idea if you acctually fixed the problem with the x-clamp replacement.

If a box is fixable with x-clamp replacement it should need nothing more, if it does you have not acctually fixed the problem, just prolonged its life.


Honestly, doing the X-clamp replacement alone rarely was enough for me. I was having many units come back to me within 1 month's time after doing the X-clamp replacement alone (RBJtech MK3 method followed to a T). I did, I've since begun implementing usage of a heatgun as standard, and not only do the units always work immediately upon reassembly (before I would often have to make several adjustments, or bake attempts before the ROD would disappear), I have not had 1 single unit return. Period.

Also, I used to do the whole foil/isolation bit, but I have since stopped, and find it completely unnecessary as long as I focus using the heat gun on the areas that do not require it and/or will melt, and I have not had any problems, nor even the slightest signs of them being affected. Not only does it save me time, but I had also had one instance were 2 caps actually stuck to the foil, and detached from the motherboard upon the removal of the foil... but, admittedly, for your average individual, it probably is recommended that they do use the foil.

Great tut!



QUOTE(Shareef187 @ May 26 2008, 11:19 PM) *

Honestly, doing the X-clamp replacement alone rarely was enough for me. I was having many units come back to me within 1 month's time after doing the X-clamp replacement alone (RBJtech MK3 method followed to a T).


I forgot to mention that I did, however, fix a couple units where the X-clamp replacement alone WAS enough, so that goes to show that it definitely wasn't my implementation of the technique that was incorrect on the other's where it was not sufficient.

I just have yet to find a case where careful implementation of a heat gun, in addition to the X-clamp replacement, would have an adverse effect from just using the X-clamp replacement alone, therefore I think it is perfectly viable to use it as part of a standard procedure. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, though.
Wilhelm_I
My host just deleted my account(too much traffic I guess..) , sorry about that guys...
It would be nice if a moderator could update the links of the pictures in my first post, I am going to post them here in the order like above with the new links...
Thanks in advance

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gamesfreak
1) Doesn't the melted plastic screw up the board at all. I hope it doesn't become to messy to remove.
2) What distance do you keep your heatgun from the mobo.
3) Do you focus on any one particular area at all or is it uniform motion across all uncovered parts in the pics.
4) Can you upload a pic of the th yellow glance on the solder please. I dont want to underdo or overdo the process.
NEWBIEMUPPET
hi I've just tried this method, be careful if the electrolitics get hot they go bang sad.gif really, I'm lucky not to be blinded iamwithstupid.gif Guess I was to far away the whole board was cooking, but the solder not soft though. Pay particualr attention to masking off. I think the distance I had about 3 to 4 inches away was to far to.

Questin, what tape did you use to fix it down.

WEAR Goggles/Safety Glasses

back to ebay for another kit biggrin.gif
Wilhelm_I
I just used a lot of transparent tape(Tesa) because I didnt have any isolation tape...
The trick is to close all holes so that no air can go through especially with the aluminum foil
The melted plastic foil is quite easy to get off it doesnt glue itself to the components or so(at least not the one I used)
You heatgun it from like 5-7 cm in circles make sure that you never keep it at the same spot because then you will burn it you want to gradually heat it up to its melting point...

@ NEWBIEPUPPET
Did you even isolate it at all?
If you would have done it like me there wouldnt have been the danger that the caps blow up in your face the foils would hold it back if it even got hot enough

@ gamesfreak
Here is a picture of what it looks like kind of but the guy who heatgunned this mainboard overdid it.
However this is kind of the color that the solder should have when you got to stop immediately...
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RYU81
what the alternative for foil ?I don't have same as you used it.
HackerSupreme
Ya where did you find the plastic foil?

Is it possible to just use like a couple of layers of aluminum paper?
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 2 2008, 01:19 AM) *

Ya where did you find the plastic foil?

Is it possible to just use like a couple of layers of aluminum paper?

You need at least one layer of something else otherwise you will cook the caps because aluminium conducts the heat very well...
the aluminium is there as a shield against the air, the seconds layer is the real isolation...

I guess I took my plastic foil out of the package that my 360 same with but I am not too sure anymore
Try using a few layers of paper maybe just as a test but be aware that it might go on fire, so make sure you close all holes with the aluminum foil
Here are some examples of what conducts heat very well and what doesnt...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity
NEWBIEMUPPET
Hi. I performed as per your tutorial, must admit for first board. You right the foil did provide some energy dissipating effect however it was still ripped open. I believe it was fully enclosed, and just wanted to make people aware that there is this potential to have accident and just to be careful. Better safe than sorry.

Is still a good tutorial though. But I think I will be buying a reflow station off fleabay
Shareef187
QUOTE(NEWBIEMUPPET @ Jun 2 2008, 11:40 AM) *

Hi. I performed as per your tutorial, must admit for first board. You right the foil did provide some energy dissipating effect however it was still ripped open. I believe it was fully enclosed, and just wanted to make people aware that there is this potential to have accident and just to be careful. Better safe than sorry.

Is still a good tutorial though. But I think I will be buying a reflow station off fleabay


Don't reflow stations cost thousands of $'s?
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(Shareef187 @ Jun 2 2008, 04:42 PM) *

Don't reflow stations cost thousands of $'s?

Rather hundreds you can get some for around 300€(~500$) already
Shareef187
I've asked this before, but are reflow stations difficult to learn to use? I was considering purchasing one previously, but now I wonder if it would be a worthwhile return on my investment considering that 90% of the time using a heat gun (which only cost me $30 as opposed to $500) is all that I need.
NEWBIEMUPPET
depends on how many boxes your turning round with regards to the cost. Really are easy to use, IR ones are the way forward as they localise the heat. I suppose it also depends on whether your going to remove bga and re ball them. Is quite a bit of hassle but would be the most solid fix as you could reflux the bga pin profile.
bosnia_9
how the f*** do you wrap that aluminum paper like that i cant get it to stay sealed to the board...
bosnia_9
well i did it but i dont know if i did it for long enough.. i ran it for 4 minutes.. 1 minute pre heat then the other 3 on setting 2 which can goes up to 450C.. and setting 1 does 250C.. so i think thats enough?
bosnia_9
well i did the under side as well for 4 minutes.. and hopefully im doing the x clamp fix and I hope it runs!
Wilhelm_I
LOL am glad you figured it out
sp1kez
Have tried 3 xboxes with clamp fix and heatgunned and still not working

erros are

0110
0102
0022


maybe im not heat gunning them enough
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(sp1kez @ Jun 9 2008, 08:08 AM) *

Have tried 3 xboxes with clamp fix and heatgunned and still not working

erros are

0110
0102
0022
maybe im not heat gunning them enough

Well I guess you focused on the wrong components...
0110 is a cold solder joint under one of the RAM bricks, so put each one of them under pressure while booting the 360 until the ROD disappears. Once youve located the one that is broken heatgun it...

0102 is a problem with the digital backbone so focus on GPU, CPU and RAM, hewatgun from both sides

0022 is similar to E74(broken ana-chip connection) with the addition that the GPU also has a bridged/cold solder joint
So heatgun the area from the GPU to the ANA-chip also from both sides

Also make sure that your heatgun gets hot enough it should at least reach a 230°C because 218°C is the melting point of the solder
tlcwobler
Hi, I'm about to attempt the heatgun method. I did the x-clamp and it worked while it was in my hands but once it went back to my friend it started freezing and went to the red rings again.

well my question on the heatgun method is I see that you used tape to tape down the plastic foil, but from the pictures I can't see if you taped the aluminum foil down as well. reason I ask is that I won't wanna tape that aluminum foil and the tape melt to the board. thanks.
sp1kez
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jun 9 2008, 02:27 AM) *

Well I guess you focused on the wrong components...
0110 is a cold solder joint under one of the RAM bricks, so put each one of them under pressure while booting the 360 until the ROD disappears. Once youve located the one that is broken heatgun it...

0102 is a problem with the digital backbone so focus on GPU, CPU and RAM, hewatgun from both sides

0022 is similar to E74(broken ana-chip connection) with the addition that the GPU also has a bridged/cold solder joint
So heatgun the area from the GPU to the ANA-chip also from both sides

Also make sure that your heatgun gets hot enough it should at least reach a 230°C because 218°C is the melting point of the solder



Put pressure from the top of the motherboard or from underneath? I tried putting pressure on the 2 In front of Heatsink (GPU) and no go, should I remove the heatsink and put pressure on the 2 under there? will the xbox boot without the GPU heatsink?


EDIT- Just tried putting presure on each and it still went to RROD, Im thinking this may be another problem?

Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(sp1kez @ Jun 9 2008, 08:43 PM) *

Put pressure from the top of the motherboard or from underneath? I tried putting pressure on the 2 In front of Heatsink (GPU) and no go, should I remove the heatsink and put pressure on the 2 under there? will the xbox boot without the GPU heatsink?
EDIT- Just tried putting presure on each and it still went to RROD, Im thinking this may be another problem?

Put a washer on both of them and put the heatsink back on this will take them under pressure, without a heatsink the GPU will overheat after 2 seconds
It will most likely be these two then
darkovo
I just had a go and popped one of the big caps! I only had grease proof paper so thought i'd try that, double-folded/layered it and double-layered the foil also used insulation tape everywhere, but after 3 or so minutes 1 went bang so had to throw it out sad.gif

Oh well, back to the drawing board for me!
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(darkovo @ Jun 14 2008, 12:47 AM) *

I just had a go and popped one of the big caps! I only had grease proof paper so thought i'd try that, double-folded/layered it and double-layered the foil also used insulation tape everywhere, but after 3 or so minutes 1 went bang so had to throw it out sad.gif

Oh well, back to the drawing board for me!

Sorry about that mate looks like the plastic foil is the only thing that works then.
If you want to replace the caps I can desolder them from a fucked up mainboard and sent them to you.
Just send me a PM
darkovo
QUOTE(Wilhelm_I @ Jun 14 2008, 08:51 AM) *

Sorry about that mate looks like the plastic foil is the only thing that works then.
If you want to replace the caps I can desolder them from a fucked up mainboard and sent them to you.
Just send me a PM


No worries only passing on my info, I'm going to use this board for practice etc, I'll use some different material for covering the caps, I've still got 2 other RRoD boards that need this doing to them so haven't given up yet wink.gif
HackerSupreme
What about Wax Paper inbetween the layers of aluminum foil?
HeLLSaTaN
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 14 2008, 04:49 PM) *

What about Wax Paper inbetween the layers of aluminum foil?


lol i was just gonna ask same question. gonna ask can I use wax paper that my mommy uses when making cookies? and then aluminum foil?
Wilhelm_I
I dont think this will make a big difference to the paper the other guy used so try to get this plastic foil.
It is nice that you want to experiment with other isolators but keep in mind that you might blow capacitors if it doesnt work....

*EDIT*
Mixing the layers might actually be a good idea as long as the different layers of aluminum foil are isolated form each other.
Do it on your own risk though, just try heatgunning for like 30 seconds then stop and check the capacitors if the top of them only slightly raised your isolation isnt working properly.
beetlemaniac
Dude what happened to the ANA chip on the last pic (the burned board) tongue.gif
HackerSupreme
Someone should post a tut on where the hell to find plastic foil...

I might just use a couple of layers.

Aluminum foil, wax paper or parchment paper, aluminum paper, other shit, aluminum foil...IDK...I still don't have to heatgun any consoles but I might in the future.
Wilhelm_I
I found my foil in boxes of electronic articles like printers etc
I dont know where you can really get this stuff just check all the garbage you got.
As I said you could also use other isolators like rock/glass wool you could cheaply get a whole packet at a DIY store.
bosnia_9
QUOTE(HackerSupreme @ Jun 18 2008, 12:37 AM) *

Someone should post a tut on where the hell to find plastic foil...

I might just use a couple of layers.

Aluminum foil, wax paper or parchment paper, aluminum paper, other shit, aluminum foil...IDK...I still don't have to heatgun any consoles but I might in the future.



go to a hardware store and buy their called "drop sheets" its usually for covering stuff up while painting, or even using it to cover your windows from the inside to stop the draft people here in north america use it.

and there is different grade stuff like heavy, medium or light. When i did this i got the heavy stuff so it was a bit thicker and it costed like $2.
beetlemaniac
How's this stuff for isolation material? It's the plastic packaging material from a canon printer.

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bosnia_9
is it really thick? or is it more like squishy and you can hear it while you crumble it?

If you can hear it, id say no, go get some drop sheets from an hardware store look at my post from above
beetlemaniac
It is squishy and soft like a plastic bag. I guess I'll have to go buy some sheets. They sell them by the meter at my local hardware store.
bosnia_9
yah just get some thick, dense, sheets youll see what i mea by thick when you touch it, its gonna feel really weird in your hand and if you try and move it around with your hand its gonna be a bit hard because it like almost sticks.

just get 2 meters and your good to go, have some spare
Wilhelm_I
Just a little update on this foil, I finally figured out where I got it from!
It is the foil that is shipped with the XCM cases.
I kind of found a treasure when I wanted to bin this box tongue.gif
So if you really want to heatgun your 360 and intend to get a replacement case get an XCM one, the others dont have it like the GHOST cases.. smile.gif
Or just go to a local hardware store like bosnia said
Squeakk
Thank you so much, got a heat gun today, heat gunned gpu, cpu, and rams. did it for like 3 minutes then herd popping sounds, my friend and I were like someone making pop corn? I let it sit for about an hour then re did x-clamps fix worked perfect. I thank you, know I am gonna move onto modding my elite with lights and more fans. I even have a temp guage (just used talismoon put the thermometer into heatsink, hit over 110 degrees F)
Wilhelm_I
QUOTE(Squeakk @ Jun 28 2008, 02:41 AM) *

Thank you so much, got a heat gun today, heat gunned gpu, cpu, and rams. did it for like 3 minutes then herd popping sounds, my friend and I were like someone making pop corn? I let it sit for about an hour then re did x-clamps fix worked perfect. I thank you, know I am gonna move onto modding my elite with lights and more fans. I even have a temp guage (just used talismoon put the thermometer into heatsink, hit over 110 degrees F)

Am glad it worked for you
Check the big caps make sure they havent blown or something.
Which foil did you use?
Was it a really thick foil with these air reservoirs if so ignore the first sentence about the caps...
If the caps are really blown you will have to replace them but since the 360 is working I dont think they are really fucked up
Squeakk
Yes, I booted/rebooted my 360 about 8 times, works flawlessly.

I used 2mm drop sheets used for painting (cover floors and furniture so paint doesn't go on it)
Taped down with electrical tape, then covered up with aluminum foil. Heated on 1st setting for a minute then 2nd setting for about 3 minutes then I herd a light popping sound, stopped tore open foil and drop sheets and then let it sit for about an hour.
Wilhelm_I
Should be alright then...

I figured something else out the hard way yesterday.
Make sure that the aluminum foil isnt too close to the chips/under the chips because as soon as the solder reflowed it will lift the RAM chip up and you are fucked.
So make sure the isolation is always like 1cm away from the chip then it will be alright.
Could kick myself in the arse for that though,
Ah yeah and something else dont heatgun the board for longer than 5 minutes or the isolation wont work properly anymore.
I heatgunned this one for like 7 minutes cause the sucked wouldnt reflow properly and in minute 7 the plastic went on fire.
The caps are okay though and the board is working besides the fact that it is showing 0020 because of the shorted out RAM.
Does anyone have an idea how to get this back on properly^^

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1ic1
can you plz reupload the pictures?

thanx smile.gif
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