Hi Guys/Galls,

I think it would be great to have a Internet Browser on the x-box with out installing a complete operatingsystem, and startable from the evo-x menu. Is this possible?

Hoping to hear from you soon!

this would be cool, but i dont think it would be easily done..... I would love for someone to prove me wrong though

Im very sure, that will happen... Someday.

I hope for a nice, easy-to-use, browser and mailclient (No webmail at my office)

Please, somebody... This is needed desperately!

///Xahur

Nice to see your confident LOL. I know the crew at Avalaunch are unable to do it, as one of them is bound by contract, not to "touch anything that remotely resembles an internet browser", or something to that effect

Pity that, they IMO, would have had the best odds on succeeding, but there are still many ppl capable i guess, but those may require an open source net browser to port, are there any available?

I would love to see one, i wish i where capable of creating xbe files from programs sources... but i tried it, and im too lazy to get it to work

Developing a browser on the PC basically involves taking something open source, like Mozilla, and writing all of the GDI-related code to actually render the pages.

However, on the xbox, all the drawing code would need to be written to display web pages using D3D. You can imagine how much code would need to be written to do so -- I don't think it's worth it to anyone to create a web browser. After all, you're on this forum, it looks like you already have easy access to a web browser . Besides, how much would it suck to surf the web from an xbox controller... I just don't think the demand is there, considering the work requirements.

The email client is probably a little more useful, but not much. Once again, who wants to send and receive email with an xbox controller... I suppose it would be useful for receiving and reading email if you have only an Xbox and not a computer around (can't imagine that happening too often).

Why use an Xbox for web browsing and email when there's a PC around??

Just my thoughts... I personally wouldn't want to write a browser for the Xbox because it would be ALOT of work, and probably wouldn't be too useful to most people.

Well...
I can tell u this, it WILL happen.

Cause u c, im from the future, and i came here in a timemachine I invented... And im usin me xbox to write this....

wonder y ppl neva believes in me stories...

What in the ...? I can't understand what you're saying... Are you trying to say that you're writing one? Well then great, go for it.

Oh, btw... dont do drugs, man, they're bad for you.

QUOTE (The unProfessional @ Jun 23 2003, 06:57 PM)

What in the ...? I can't understand what you're saying... Are you trying to say that you're writing one? Well then great, go for it. Oh, btw... dont do drugs, man, they're bad for you.

I laughed my @$$ off on that one! rotfl!

QUOTE

who wants to send and receive email with an xbox controller

I agree it sounds like a neat idea, but unless you're installing linux and a keyboard it would be a major pain to use.... and then you wouldn't need a special browser. Who wants to tab thru web links like webtv? And it would suk bigtime to write an email choosing letters with the controller....

Well you can sort of use (several) webbrowsers along with a few other internet proggies (email, mirc, etc) with this cool new linux distro called dynebolic. I dont know why its not popular, because unlike every other linux distro on the xbox this one can be run straight from a cd-rw without installing anything to the xbox's hdd. So it wont partition you're hdd, it runs straight from a cdrw!!! I've got it and i love it, its easy to use for the linux noob (me), has all these great apps that can be easily accessed and it runs great! get it from www.dynebolic.org

Note: the iso image available for d/l there is capable of being booted on both a PC or xbox.

Its the closest thing you'll probably be getting for a while for a webbrowser on the xbox without having to install linux. And yes, you must have a keyboard and mouse.

THERE IS A WEB BROWSER FOR XBOX...try installing GenTooX... and using Mozilla!

Funny, I've had two separate occasions that after 10mins of showing someone my xbox, they said "so lemme see what web browsing is like on this" I guess most people assume that it would have been done by now. I'm not a programmer, so I can't say I have the first idea about the difficulty involved in something like this, but I would say that I personally would find it to be useful. Linux on the xbox isn't a good solution if you are simply wanting to browse the web or write emails for four reasons a) it takes too long to start linux plus whatever windows manager you happen to be running takes too much memory to run a web browser with any sort of speed (yes, even wmaker) c) it's not formatted to be run on a tv properly, to do this you would need to redo the layout to customize it for the xbox d) only works with svideo or worse connections, so no component lovin'at this time, sorry I have a tv that displays 480p and 1080i, so I would like to use it.

P.S. This is in no way meant to be a slam on the xbox linux community, I think it is great for many things... it just doesnt make a good desktop PC with the default 64mb of mem and an svid connection

Web browsing in 1993 -> EASY

Web browsing in 2003 -> Damn bat guano insanely difficult.


Why? Take a look at the source for most web pages these days... Flash, Java, VBScript, extensions... there are countless issues to navigate around just to display a single page correctly. Let's not even get to the notion of fetching data through firewalls and proxies. Let's not get into the notion of supporting web forms and the HTML UI functionality.

- and when somebody does do it, everybody will cry about how it doesn't support this, or it doesn't support that... or how broken some pages look.

Writing a web browser these days is a proposition akin to writing a Windows clone (backwards compatible with existing software). You need a good size development team, set requirements, test procedures, etc. It's just not a simple task.

Well what we could do is use the XboxLive Head Set and make a Voice Recongization progy that would type for you. I know this would be hard but possible. This could solve the keyboard issue. I donno once I have some free time I might try to do this

Ooh then you introduce the insane difficulty of speech recognition. Then, even if you got it working, people would cry about how it messes up X out of every Y words. Speech recognition isn't near perfect. Even companies such as Dragon have spent years and millions on the technology, which still screws up a fair amount of the time, even when it's tuned to your voice.

I would suggest just using a USB keyboard, to solve that issue

lol did nobody read BenJeremy's post

It's taken the Mozilla team years to get to the state it is today.

Go and take a look at the source code for mozilla and you'll see how insanely impossible it would be to write a stand alone web browser for the xbox.

Yea I agree "The Unprofessional", That the USB Keyboard would be the best solution right now.

Considering how MS is almost certain to counter the upcoming PSX (120gb PS2 w/Tivo) with the "Xbox Next" (Xbox with Ultimate TV/WebTV built in) within the next few months I would say that this sort of project probably won't be necessary for long.

Having said that, I think it would still be a good idea for someone to develop a very simple web browser, perhaps with even the minimal capabilities of html 3.2 compliance. (Basic text, hyperlink and image functionality.)

While it wouldn't be ideal, it would get the job done for basic browsing. You would probably be surprised to know that the majority of the top 100 website are actually still backward compatible with html 3.2, and so would look passible on a simple web browser.

Any takers?

Flagg

Why not just a simple prog to D/L your e-mail with ? How hard can that be ?
Atleast then I don't have to start Linux for 8 minuten and it takes another 3 to shut it down.

It's allready a start, i'm sure millions of people would be happy with that allready.
It would be a big event !

So currently, there is no simple browser to run on xbox? I have only heard of Gentoox and that looks too complex for me. Or is there any new browser that i havent yet read about.

QUOTE (The unProfessional @ Jun 23 2003, 06:57 PM)

browser for the Xbox because it would be ALOT of work, and probably wouldn't be too useful to most people.

you are mostly right, but the concept behind a x-web browser is based on a web reader and not on a web surfer tool. A web reader will be useful for watch some video available on internet and read newspaper or whatever.

Btw, any xbox application is basically equal to a macromedia flash applet, so you have to render any single interaction and this aspect make the lines of code grow grow grow...explode

I've a half idea and I'm investigating on this interesting and uncovered area. I hate linux and I'd like an indipendent application such xbmp in order to browse and read, maybe the new posts of this forum

I'd be incredibly happy with a simple mail notification program. I know BJ talked about implementing this in MXM's future releases... You basically enter pop3 information in the dash/program and it runs in the background and notifies you of new mail on the server. I'm sure that can run in a dashboard, but would it be possible to run this even while playing games? (E.g: it pauses game, alpha menu pops up: "You have new mail for blah@email.com." Then you can go back to your game. Even better it could display subject/sender to let you know if it's important).

I've been wondering if you can run programs in the background while playing games (kinda like a PC environment). Often i'm waiting for an important email while playing xbox and don't feel like walking all the way to my comp to click 'send/receive', no new message, then come back to xbox...

Wouldn't that be great

2 words not possable

BUT Yes the but
you could make a program to download the html from the site you enter and then view it for example

first it downloads all the images and html from www.xbox-scene.com's news page the downloaded files are put in the temp partions of the box's drive than it views the html and images it would be very basic but hey it would work

and than if another page is loaded the temp files are flushed and new are loaded

What could be a possible solution is something like VNC which allows you to control a remote PC and hence you could have a web browser running on your PC with the display on the XBOX. This should be fairly easily doable...

I think the best chance would be M$ developing it, but they never wanted the xbox to be mini pc, so this is unlikely as well

I really will be great Xbox Scene might have one but how says anyone can't build it with OXDK

Writing a POP3 client for the Xbox is fairly trivial. However, it isn't possible for it to run in the background while playing games. No point in arguing that, it's just the way it is.

But, it wouldn't be a problem for any of the dash authors to build it in when they have time. I'm sure we'll see it sooner or later.

As for the browser, I doubt it'll happen. Even with basic HTML 3.2 compliance, it's not a weekend project. If a small team was formed for the sole purpose of writing a browser for the xbox, the project would probably take a couple of months minimum.

I'd consider getting a team together to do it, but i'm still trying to squeeze out time for jihad.

I would be happy with a pop3 email checker and for it to just even say you have mail and not even check how much new e-mails. its just a thing i would like to see. and if some how months from now a simple web browser was maid I wouldnt mind using my controller to type in a websites address. hell if they would make a browser im sure they could make a drop down history list of the websites you enterd and you can chose them. but anyway. it doesnt look easy since even M$ didnt implement the abilitly to check your ranks on the xbox you'll need to go on xbox live website.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?act...ST&f=30&t=87185

I posted this thread a while ago, perhaps will open your mind to some alternative workarounds?

I never got the chance to try my idea out yet, due to holidays and the current position of all my hw. xbox aint need a net connection at present.

Basically, the idea is running a emulator on the xbox, and then running a small browser with the emulator.

ie. XBOX -> C64EMU -> Contiki Browser.

Perhaps someone wants to try this out for me? :-) would only take 5 mins to dump the required software on a CDRW and try it out.

The main problem I can imagine, is the networking code between EMU and XBOX. Dunno if that would work un-tweaked.

So, there's my concept - who wants to try and put it into practise??!?

is there any distance in emulating something like the bush set top boxes that were sold in the uk?

a friend told me these ran on a low end archimedies (can't spell for toffee) based system.

i've never user one but just thought that if you were going to emulate anything to do web browsing this would be the way to go.
cj

Is it possible to port Windows XP to Xbox cuz its basically just a computer, and w/ an OS installed + proper sound, video, and network drivers you can use the integrated webbrowser (IE) if I'm not wrong? Just a thought, no flaming plz....

The internet to TV boxes were as popular as (insert most unplaesent thing you can think of)..
even the ones with broadband support are avaliable for next to nothing on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...5&category=3320

640x480 is just impossible to browse web pages with out smashing your mouse to bits, let alone an xbox controller trying to emulate a keyboard.

Like most ppl, I would try it for 5 mins and then delete it, its hardly worth the effort for someone to code it.

QUOTE

Is it possible to port Windows XP to Xbox cuz its basically just a computer, and w/ an OS installed + proper sound, video, and network drivers you can use the integrated webbrowser (IE) if I'm not wrong? Just a thought, no flaming plz....

Sure. Just email MS asking for the code.
Not flaming, just really obvious.

I would really love to see a standalone browser (mozilla... even better) for XBOX

I understand it wouldn't be great for surfing, but that's not the point... I see it as great for the followin

* Having bookmarked sports/news pages which you can call up and read on your telly in the morning/day
* Having a bookmarked TV guide...hm what shall I watch to night
* Having bookmarked web radio... lets put some dance music on....
* Checking email (not necessarily writing responses)

People just need to open their mind about the potential benefits of this thing rather than saying how it wont be able to do xyz.

Most likely the answer will come via Linux... I'm keen to see Dynebolic on my 1.1 xbox, but even better would be a stripped down version where I could default it just to boot to my browser to check my news/sports and stuff.

I dont think the focus is on "what it can't do". Clearly this thread is full of non-developers. Writing a browser is not an easy task by any means... I've explained why about half-a-dozen times. BJ explained it a few times as well.

Would it be nice? yes... but i doubt anyone wants to spend the enormous amount of time doing it so 100 people can use it 5 seconds a day. See what I mean? :-

Wouldn't you rather have more people working on homebrew games?


EDIT: It would probably take less time for someone to crank out a stripped-down linux kernel with minimal module loading for increased loading speed. It would probably be released as an ISO, so you can just pop it in and boot without any mod to the hard disk. That would probably take less time and headache than writing a proprietary D3D-based web browser.

Agree with you whole heartedly about somoene having to write a whole browser.

I would love to see a stripped down linux kernel that you could modify yourself .... so I could run a browser and add any linux games I like... the current distros just seem a bit too fat.... and with all the boot time etc wouldn't be ideal for the sort of web browsing I mentioned above... But I think I'll have to give linux a decent trial myself before I make any more stupid statements.

Well I know MXM got a RFF reader that reads Xbox-scene news. But what about making a stand alone program that u can specify the RFF links yourself. This way we are going somewhere. =)

Scuse my ignorance but could you please explain what MXM is and what RFF is?

QUOTE

Is it possible to port Windows XP to Xbox cuz its basically just a computer, and w/ an OS installed + proper sound, video, and network drivers you can use the integrated webbrowser (IE) if I'm not wrong? Just a thought, no flaming plz....

Lets try and get Bill to do it

QUOTE (BlaCkAdDa @ Aug 29 2003, 01:30 AM)

Scuse my ignorance but could you please explain what MXM is and what RFF is?

Well MXM is a dashboard. (MediaXMenu) and RFF is someway to make a newsfeed I think. Dont got a better way to explain what RFF.

Ok I gotcha... maybe I'll check MXM out (so long as I dont have to overwrite my EVOX) ... then we'll looksee from there

QUOTE (BlaCkAdDa @ Aug 25 2003, 03:15 AM)

* Having a bookmarked TV guide...hm what shall I watch to night * Having bookmarked web radio... lets put some dance music on....

I know some countries got tvguide on XBMP...
And u can also listen to a shoutcast stream...

look at www.xbmp.de

Hmmm....on to the original topic, Xbox-Linux Live should do this. When the team released screenshots earlier this year, I distintly remember that one of the featured a browser window, probably Mozilla. Try that, it's free for download.

Linux has a Internet Browser, AIM, IRC,FTP,and e-mail
and more.

I'm pretty sure it's NOT on linux live cd though... I have had a play with this and don't recall seeing Mozilla or anything like that.

Hmm if all you want in HTML 3.2 i believe that the sun java VM supports parsing of html 3.2. If that is correct, i believe that the source is also available. Thus if someone could get the java vm running on a box (I have no idea on how this would be done since I have never developed anything for the xbox) then running a java program on top of it that was basically a JEditorPanel with some bookmark support thrown in would be trivial.

bah, who uses the internet anyway?!

I looked into it and if someone can get a JVM with Swing support up and running on the xbox then a browser with HTML 3.2 support would be really really simple.

It would provide a lot more than that wouldn't it?
Would it give us Java as an alternate development kit for homebrew?

its not gonna happen, cuz i dont think anyone will wanna spend the time on it. ppl may claim to be making one, but they are lying.