More on LIVE Bans, HDD Crippling, Possible Ban Causes Posted by XanTium | November 7 12:07 EST | News Category: Xbox360

Kushan wrote a nice little article on #FW@EFnet summarizing all kinda info we have about the current (still ongoing) Console Live Ban Wave: [QUOTE] - What does this mean for you and what can you do about it? Firstly, and most obviously, you cannot connect to Xbox Live on this console any more. This means no more game updates (aka title updates), XBLA games, marketplace content, netflix/sky player and so on. There is no way around this, all online capabilities are now disabled PERMANENTLY. In all likelihood, your gamertag has NOT BEEN BANNED. When your gamertag gets banned, Microsoft sends you an email detailing why, if you have not recieved this email then your profile should be ok, to a certain extent. Hard Drive installs are now disabled on the banned console. This means any disk-based games you have will no longer play off of the hard drive. If you attempt to play a game, it will tell you that it was installed on a different 360 and needs to be deleted/installed again. When you delete the game and attempt to install it, you are given a message telling you that it is not supported. There is no way to fix this, that functionality is simply gone from the banned 360. The hard drive itself is left untouched - you can place it in another 360, even an unbanned one, and it will still work just fine. You do NOT need to reformat it to regain any kind of functionality. Any installed games will need to be reinstalled for the console you want to play them on. This is normal behaviour and happens when swapping HDDs on unbanned/legit 360's. Windows Media Centre functionality is disabled. It is still possible to stream video/music content via the video library. Your Gamertag may be corrupted. This does not mean your gamertag has been banned, you can recover it using any live-capable 360, however ANY ACHIVEMENTS YOU HAVE EARNED SINCE BEING BANNED WILL BE LOST. Your gamertag will be corrupted EVERY SINGLE TIME it is used on a banned console. This means you cannot use your banned console to play backups offline just to get achievements - it wont work, the second you put your profile back on a good 360, it will be corrupted and all progress lost. There is no way around this. The same applies to game saves - if you access a game save on a banned 360, it too will be corrupted when accessed on a legit/unbanned 360! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! There is no way around this, either. Your XBLA games and DLC will still be valid, however to play them on a different 360 you will need to be signed into Xbox Live. This is normal behaviour on unbanned/legit 360's as well. They may be corrupted and have to be re-downloaded if you attempt to access them on a banned 360. You can transfer all of your downloaded content to a new 360 here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/default.htm however note that you can only do it once every 12 months. So, in summary: Your Banned 360: * Cannot go on Xbox Live * Cannot install games to the HDD * Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender * Cannot be used to get achievements from backups without corrupting your profile You cannot do anything about this, short of buying a new 360. There may be more functionality disabled than mentioned here, things are still being discovered. - So what caused my ban? There are MANY theories as to what is causing so many consoles to get banned this time, however as of yet there is nothing concrete, just a lot of circumstantial evidence and speculation. Please do not add to this, a full investigation is under-way. c4eva, the main guy behind iXtreme, had this to say: <+c4eva> fw itself not detectable <+c4eva> suspect they are going hard on warez releases and incorrect use of abgx! He also added the following: <+c4eva> just to let you know that im looking into the current ban wave. I am currently running several brand new xboxs on live! These xboxs are in various configs. All are running ixtreme 1.61 <+c4eva> One is running original discs, another is running on xbl (no discs) , another is running a backup from my region! <+c4eva> until tests are completed, no eta on liteon fw! When we know more, YOU'LL no more, so please do not ask for updates! A full transcript is available here - http://pastebin.ca/1660777 Remember, if you really want to blame someone, blame the person that decided to modify your 360 in the first place - most likey, that would be you ; [/QUOTE]

The whole corruption deal is bullshit if you ask me. In before the obvious "it's your fault; take responsibility for your actions, etc." response, but honestly. How does messing up my data somehow protect Xbox LIVE?

It seems like MS simply wants you to enjoy your banned console as little as legally possible.

I'm not upset about being banned from LIVE, but disabling HDD installs and so on was just a dick move. Saving data and installing to the HDD isn't tethered to LIVE, so why would they disable it other than to stick it to us? It's rather cruel.

I agree.

So the only thing the banned 360 would be useful for is playing questionable game releases & spare parts...

I'm glad C4Eva is running various tests with several 360's + different parameters. It's the only real way to find out what's causing the bans.

I guess i'll have to wait i little longer for iXtreme 1.61 for Liteon's - no big deal.

Thank You C4Eva + Team HyperX

Do you guys think it will be possible to make xbox "forget" it has been banned, to make it able to install games to HDD again? It surely is some offline thing, there must be some kind of trigger in xbox's memory that says "banned = 1". So maybe if we tracked it down, we could just change it to default (unbanned) and return xbox's functionality... well at least until it tries to connect to live again and becomes banned again.

What is the purpose of disabling a bunch a functionality?

Corrupting your Gamertag and savefies so you can't use them on an unbanned xbox. That's BS plain and simple.

Not allowing you to install your games to the hard drive. Again more BS.

They really are trying to make more money by crippling your banned box as much as possible to force you to get a new one.

Yes I understand that the live rules were broken but come on, at least let us enjoy our banned xbox.

For game saves and profiles couldn't it be possible to get the data to your comp then apply serial from your other console then transfer back all these to the HDD again? I think I heard it somewhere.

The profile and gamesave corruption has been around for at least a month. I used to play offline on my launch console which got banned 2 years ago and then every once in a while sign into live on my good box to upload the achievements. Right after the system update before this newest one, I went to do that like I have done for 2 years and my profile was corrupted and I lost every gamesave since launch. 4 years of saves. I've been playing on the newer box since to avoid this as this is way worse than just getting banned from Live, but unfortunately it got banned too in this latest wave. Microsoft has every right to do this and it's actually kind of funny that they finally found a way to screw us after 4 years, but it certainly does suck. You pretty much have to choose whether to give up achievements forever and just play the games for fun offline (never been the same for me since I started getting achievements. I can't enjoy a game without feeling like I'm making some sort of "progress" by getting achievements now), or go legit and either shell out the money and buy games or just don't play hardly any games if money is an issue.

misuse of abgx? i'd be curious to see what he means by that. i'm glad to see that figuring out this banwave is taking a higher priority than getting the new liteon firmware out. liteon users have their activate.iso, so the bannings are definitely more important

I'd rather M$ ban my console than to go after me with a lawsuit.

So if we recover just our profile on a new 360 everything is OK? Thanks

suspect they are going hard on warez releases and incorrect use of abgx!

I suspect that to be the most logical explanation for this ban wave.

Great update! Very interesting.

What exactly do they have on you that they could sue you for? They have no evidence whatsoever that anyone played an illegal backup. All they have evidence of is that you modified the console which justifies a ban from Live. It is legal to make a backup of a game you own, and they'd have to prove that someone that played a backup didn't own an original copy in order to bring any kind of lawsuit, and there's no way for them to prove that.

I would agree but some of us got banned with only using our own rips and not using abgx.

yeah it sucks about things they have disabled,i modded my console and got banned,fair enough but i didnt mod the hard drive or the profile.got 5 more consoles ready to go.
the console that got banned was acrade pack with 256 mb,1.51 firmware on liteon 7xxxx series,no games played early,games installed on hdd,originals played halo odst,nfs shift.non originals cod 4/5 forza 3 all agbx verified.
now got super elite f.o.c

thanks for the firmware over the last 3 years saved plenty money

I am happy they corrupted the consoles. You can still enjoy your Xbox360, you just can't earn gamerscore. That will be a privilege left to those who are purchasing their games.

You all new the risk.

Just hope homebrew comes soon and your corrupted consoles could get more use.

besides we have to pay for live its not a freebie. oh well I needed a new xbox anyway

And whats to say that your rip wasnt bad? Or your burning of back up was bad...??

Bad rips I feel are definetly playing a huge part in this ban wave.

maybe there is some flaw in our ripping process, such as the 359 degree error that got us in trouble before.

mis use of ABGX u rekon thats if you inject wrong stealth files, or patch the 4th wave to play on 3rd wave

I guess C4 is waiting for the next ban wave to make sure the new LiteOn fw is ok.

Noob question: what does he meant by 'Live log'?

there is a theory that m$ is uploading bad rips, but there are also users who claim they never downloaded any games...



is it possible (or even likely) that m$ could corrupt the abgx database by uploading bad info to them?

Patching 4th wave to play as 3rd wave has nothing to do with abgx and if you did that you deserve to be banned. All of the notes that came with that conversion software said not to attempt to play on Live after you patch a 4th wave game to play as 3rd wave.

I am curious as to what could be "misuse of abgx" though. I used level 3, never played a game that wasn't verified, and never played a 4th wave game. I'm not sure how I could have misused abgx, unless someone was putting up bad rips as verified copies, so images were getting tainted by abgx.

What, exactly, is the vetting process for people uploading the abgx360 checksums and files? Is all the data uploaded by a small team explicitly trusted (and personally known) by the abgx360 developers, or is it gathered via a distributed community where there is little to no verification of a person's identity (or where it's possible to gain their trust over a period of time while still remaining anonymous)?

If submitters are not personally known to the developers, what would stop an MS employee (or a number of them working together in order to fool any "strength in numbers" verification the system has) from submitting poisoned entries to the database? If MS could get incorrect entries into the database, you'd really be patching *in* a bright red flag that tells MS to come get you when you "fix" your rips with abgx360. Digital marked bills, as it were.

I've seen a Kreon drive make rips that have only verify through abgx360 around 50% of the time - you'd think home rips would be 100% verified. As I see it, that means either:

1) the Kreon drive is making bad rips (strange that some rips would verify fine though)
2) there are multiple valid checksums for one title, and the specific checksums on the titles that didn't validate were just not the ones in the database
3) the abgx360 database is incorrect (possibly poisoned)

[EDIT]: Whoops, beaten by 14 minutes above. Go me and taking 20 minutes to write a post!

M$ don't have the rights to corrupt your console. You payed for that, you have the right to do anything with it. Is MY problem if I use backups or anything. They ban for the stupid xbox live? Ok But they couldn't touch your hdd, and couldn't block you to earn gamerscores.

I am not banned yet, but I hope that all banned people who has their data corrupted, take legal actions against M$. They must stopping treating his costumers like shit.

You agreed to the TOS, they can do whatever the hell they want with your console at that point

I too think this is a bit nasty, cause you are breaking something which in essence has nothing to do with XBOX Live.

Hey I was wondering... If I recover my gamertag on a non banned console and still have my GT on the banned console with the HD that was on it when it got banned (obviously offline) to play backups, would that still be ok? I am not concerned about gamerscore points. I just want to be able to use my Live account because I just renewed my subscription? I dont want to use the "banned hd" on the new console. Thanks

Well I was banned this morning Never played a wave 4 game, all games were verified through abgx run level 3, so yea, theoretically I did everything "right" and was still banned. Obviously there is something we are missing in the whole abgx/burning process. I just bought a 360 off ebay with the dirty disc error to begin playing again next week though but I'm definitely going to wait to flash it again...

They most certainly can not. Check the ToS and show me where it states that MS are authorised to corrupt your personal data? I'm waiting to see if MN comes forward and confirms they're corrupting people's game saves and if so, pretty sure those affected would legally have a case against them.

I was one of the affected from yesterday's ban wave as well as my cousin. I just want to share my speculation behind the bannings.

My config/history:
-iXtreme 1.61 Benq
-all titles verified Scene backups
-played only one wave 4 while logged into LIVE (Tekken 6) on 11/4 for the first time.

Cousin config history:
-iXtreme 1.61 Benq
-all title verfied backups from various sources
-played 2 wave 4 titles while signed into LIVE Tekken 6, and Forza.

Other's I know are on iXtreme 1.61 and play online everyday even at this very moment. The key difference is that they have not played any wave 4 titles. I'm starting to think the latest bannings are surrounding the wave 4 releases.

It's already been stated multiple times that the bannings have nothing to do with Wave 4, or at least, they're not the deciding factor. Countless people on here have reported never, ever having booted/played a Wave 4 game even once, and they're banned.

one thing that is worying me is if they can disable you banned xbox from doing things
like isntall games to hard drive
what if they have banned are consoles from taking future updates so we wont be able to play newer games
then will will have paper wieghts

My son has played wave releases with the boot disc and he's not banned.

He had 1.51 which I updated to 1.6 when I realised the boot disc wouldn't work.

Another machine I did which was at 1.6 and never had any wave 4 releases got banned this morning. All backups abgx verified.

Abgx has got to be involved somewhere.

Excellent work C4EVA!!!!!

Doubt you are reading this thread, but if you are, you can try this for your machine that is running backups (as part of your test cases):

Allow it to get the wifi update, then play an ABGX Level 3 verified backup of Madden 2010. In 3 consoles that I experimented with, this backup caused instant bans, and it is the only common game between the 3. I can mail you the retail copy if you need it.

Other boxes have played backups of Forza, Borderlands, etc., with no problems, and are still NOT banned. The only bannings that occurred were after playing the AGBX verified Madden 2010.

Just food for thought.

That's what struck me too. I'm assuming he's referring to the wrong settings from abgx. However, there's tuts all over the place to properly setup abgx for verifying & patching backups. I've seen too many reports from experienced users from abgx still get banned. I know how to use it & I'm still safe from the banning but I certainly don't trust the program right now.



Is this a true backup or a copy from a scene release?

Now how can they get by with disabling the Extender feature of your xbox. What does that have to do with Live? Whats stoping them from disabling the whole system while there at it?

Ill go on and say this. Until someone with $$ or balls to nab an attorney and challenge MS, they will continue to muscle and bully modders. Banning the console is within their rights however, stopping the functionality of the console when not connected to live is definitely a no no. I unfortunately dont have the money or time to challenge this issue in court but im sure they are violating something since the corruption of files, HDD functionalities and updates that were applied and agreed to prior to banishment are being compromised.

Shame on MS as I can handle having a functional banned box but handicapping the use of the xbox even when it doesn't pertain to live is unacceptable.

I Have been banned after playing ABGX verfied copy of Madden, and another friend of mine has been banned as well after playing a copy of this game (he has only played this and borderlands online.) The 3rd Xbox I know of that was banned has never played Madden 10.

Bah I just talked to my friend, and we both have played the same exact burned games (I'm the one with the games on my HD), and we both have a BENQ and only I was banned. So yea, I have no idea whats going on.

What if it was playing that game at a certain time? If the check window was a 6 hour window back in september? This is quite a possibility IMO.

I haven't been banned (just checked) but decided to remove myself from live anyway. Removing people from your network is one thing, I get that, but screwing with functionality is totally uncalled for. So ya, fuck MS. Now you don't get my subscription or what I was spending on DLC. Good thing the PS3 has had such a solid year.

Not much. Theoretically through the use of e-fuses, they could red ring your console.

I have to agree on the Madden Theory.

Is the crippling HDD new?

If so, I would expect they have a way to read what's on the HDD (if they can disable it) and can see if it is a copied game or not; maybe that's why the feature was introduced?

The Media Center functionality DOES work, I have tried it a couple of times.
I was banned a couple of years ago, and installed the wave4 update yesterday.
Now, while the HDD installation is indeed disabled, I can confirm that the use of the console as a MC extender is still possible..

I think one of the possibilities is a certain game that was developed by Microsoft Studios Or a trusted Game developer, that simply was stamped/ss/pfi differently, or have several versions, That will explain the "No" Pattern we are seeing in the ban.

Edit: Its NOT madden. I have many banned console never played madden (Not common where we are) I think GOW2 - Microsoft Own game

I don't understand why everyone is so trusting of ABGX. I also don't understand why people are so sure that they cannot detect the firmware. I didn't write the OS, didn't write the firmware, and didn't develop the hardware. Unless you've done all three or have full access to those that have, I don't see how you can possible know for sure what can and cannot be done with it. I do know that they are detecting something and are banning close to real time. I've had one 360 online for years with no issues, it gives me the three red lights and I replace it. The new 360 is banned in less than a week of being modified. This latest update detects something, be it one of the two games I played, the firmware used, or how the drive reads the disc.

Anyway, I can understand stopping the transfer of data from a banned box, as they have rights to full control of the data possibly used on Live. This includes transferring of the profiles. I also know there are ways around this, but they open up the possibility of the profile being banned. I can still use my data on my banned 360, so I'm still playing my games with little loss. (You're only losing the ability to update your achievements, a useless number anyway, and to play on Live.) I've recovered my profile to my other 360 for Live play and I have left a copy on the banned 360. Again, I'm still enjoying my games and getting achievements. I'm just not able to show the world what I'm doing. Oh well.

I don't understand why they would disable other features inherent to the product, but have nothing to do with Live. Disabling the ability to copy games to the hard drive is just pointless and annoying. It's the only thing I have issues with, as the DVD drive is just annoying at times. Is there something I missed in being able to manipulate an installed game to affect Live play on another box?

I'd like to see more effort in regaining full offline functionality, rather than just working out what's getting consoles banned and a work-around. Honestly, I got the console banned for a reason and I full accepted the chance of it happening when I modified it. I did not, however, expect to lose non-Live functionality.


That may be the case. I don't see much mention of those being banned running games installed or not. I personally did have one of the two games I played installed and had played it installed for quite a few hours before returning to find that the console was banned.

I got banned for playing halo 3 online (odst edition with maps) and that was it.. i literally never play any other games on live, my two housemates got banned for playing the exact same disc... i know were stupid

to be fair like some have said we have saved a fortune on games

you proberly get throught 2 xboxes every 2 years - but ive got 90 + games at £40 each so im in credit by quiet a lot

so all i can say is thanks for the hardwork behind the scenes making us able to play the latest releases out

keep up the good work lets hope we all dont get banned lol ive got 3 xboxes already 2 are dead not banned

one is going strong