you have to be a 100% baby back bitch to sign up for this banned or not

Add to that that i am now modifying consoles for free, and pointing those ppl to where to get games. and also telling them not to get a new 360 and to get a ps3 instead.

Side note - since cracking the encryption on the 360 would take too long, who do we have to take hostage to get their private key?

I am unfortunately one of the ~1 million banned and here's my 2 cents on the whole thing.

1) I knew the risks of modding my 360 (as should all other modders), and am not too distraught about being banned. I really don't care about the 3 months left on my Live subscription/Gamerscore/etc. It was a dick move by MS to start the ban wave before MW2/holiday season in an effort to boosts Q4 sales figures, but hey, that's MS. However, I'm still incredibly pissed about...

2) ... the HD crippling. A few posters brought up a great point that if MS advertises HD installs as a feature, they don't have the right to take it away. Hopefully there's something to this and the feature will be restored soon (or at least somebody will figure out how to fix it).

3) I was thinking about buying a new 360 to play MW2 with my buddies back home, but the thought of giving money to MS now makes me sick. This gives me another reason to finally buy a PS3, and I'll just use my 360 offline. I'm really interested to see if the sales figures for the new few months reflect banned people buying a replacement console or jumping ship to Sony.

4) Although MS's legal team's probably covered all the bases before giving whoever the go for the ban, I hope somebody, anybody, really takes it to them over this. The RROD lawsuit definitely had stronger legs than this one, but hopefully this will cause enough commotion/bad publicity that they somehow get theirs.

All in all, the situation sucks, but that's life sometimes. If you are too invested in your Gamertag, you'll unfortunately have to give more money to MS. If not, maybe you should grab a PS3 and even out the console war a bit. And if nothing else, you can thank MS for all the extra free time you'll have that would've been spent on Live. Your girlfriend/wife won't complain nearly as much or you can head to the gym to help snag you one. Personally, I'm going to dust off my guitar and sign up for some Muay Thai classes.

P.S. Anybody want to buy a wireless headset?

You've actually bolstered the argument there. Every November? Just before holiday season, when they're looking to shift games consoles?

Under the Freedom of Information act, we should be permitted to see WHEN a console was flagged for a ban. If someone was flagged back in May/June, any law firm would have a very strong case against Microsoft.

the problem here is, how will they prove that MS is flagging the consoles before banning them.

and also, who says MS has to ban right when they catch you?

well, its obvious they want more money so they wait to the right time to ban you.

so basicly, all the money you saves from not buying the games, you pay to MS for the live subscription and a new console.

THis is the stupidest thread i have ever seen Microsoft banned the system, you can still use your live service if you bought a next console

epic fail by law firm
Ms did nto rip those people off they did it to them selves

This suit will be thrown out because MS has taken the best action it could to protect it's customers fair use of their live service. All MS will have to do is provide proof that the modded consoles could be used to cheat in online games, and circumvent the DRM and the case is won. MS will also be able to point out that the consoles themselves are not useless, and can still be used offline, while the harddrive while not useable on the banned console, will be usable on another. Since the gamer tag is not banned, any content you purchase can easily be moved to another console or hard drive for that matter. Since you are violating the contract you have with MS for the use of live, you will not be able to recoup any monies for the remainder of your time left on your gold subscription, all you would have to do is buy another unit, or restore the banned 360 to an unmodifed state with the instructions available on this site.

We all know the risks for what we do, but very few a willing to deal with the consequences of our actions. To me the live service is worth more than the ability to back up my games, or run linux so I have not modified my consoles,what ever else can be done with the console once it is modified has yet to be seen, and at the current rate of modification, when something actually worth while doing with a modified console the console itself will be last gen, and the next console will be on the market. While some in the scene will still continue to work on freeing the machine and completely open it up, most will move on to cracking and opening up the next gen system.


Do the ends really justify the means as far as modification goes? I don't think so.

The bottom line is if out of 1 million banned users , a number can be found that store bought 360 NEW and found out it was Banned, or , never did anything wrong and were BANNED, that would CHANGE EVERYTHING. Everything. Because MS states there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO UNBAN.
"we don't want to hear about it".
This could come back and bite them.
If a FEW people can be found that were BANNED wrongly, and taken to court, then MS's BANNING practice WOULD have to stop, court's could make them.
Stop talking about how wrong it is to mod or other crap like that, I'm talking, BANNING people that did no wrong. If they can be found, that WILL CHANGE everything. The courts agreed that these people did NO wrong, and MS states "nothing you can say to us to unban you", the COURTS could say to MS, "well, we are the LAW and we are telling you UNBAN everybody since your BANNING method is "catching legit people".
You guys are focusing on wrong thing. If you modded your 360, YES , you got banned, BUT I'm focusing on the exception "people who did nothing wrong", and out of 1 million people, there have got to be some people, even if people went into walmart and bought a "returned" 360 but bought it NEW.
If court rules , "unban" then MS would have to come out with NEW method to check and ban or have more flexible method of banning and unbanning.

Maybe they could add to the lawsuit

MS does it at this time to create larger fake sales number for the holiday as well.

Yeah the HDD should have been the main focus. It's like when we buy a new car and want to install a new radio so does that give the dealer the right to disable the speakers.

Yeah the timing is always been @ the end of the year we should all know that

Is there anywhere in the TOS that specifically states Microsoft will disable HDD functionality if the agreement is violated?

How do they expect MS to pay prorated refunds... if the Xbox is banned not the account?

Good luck with that one.
Easy argument "they can simply buy a new 360 and not modify it" Case dismissed

You violate the terms of service, you don't get a refund. You only get a refund if it is Microsofts fault. This clearly isn't. MS didn't make you mod the console. This whole thing is bs. In no way does anyone think that downloading games and cheating on live would be "unfair" in the TOS. They know full well what they are doing. This wont help Live at all. It will only make MS more reluctant to ban, when they need to be banning more. I frakking hate cheaters. There is a special level of hell just for them.

Get their money back? No

Ignorance is not a defense.

Actually, when you buy a new car and want to change the stereo you void the warranty if you change anything from stock. You also need to use an adapter on most looms for it to fit the new head unit and in some the speakers don't work, or it can affect other parts of the car. My old MR2 had amps which I removed, once removed it disabled the starting circuits (or the whole electrics, I never looked too hard in to it, just put the amps back).


Yes. They state they may add, remove or change services and/or features without notice. But the HDD still works in a banned console, game installs do not. This is due to the console no longer having the rights/ability to sign the content.

Under the Freedom of Information Act Microsoft MUST give you ALL information they hold on you. They can charge an admin fee for this (and will do). There is no guarantee they will give info on the consoles though.

I almost mentioned this earlier then thought, what if Microsoft log the bans etc to the console not the person. This will not have to be disclosed if that is the case.

It's worth a try. I think there is a maximum admin fee of about £15 for this info, check the PPI reclamation guides as people do this for their loans etc. and the rules are the same. Then send a cheque off for the amount to Microsoft demanding all information. If you are not satisfied with the information sent and believe there is more they haven't sent you keep hassling them and they have to send it (if it exists)... if nothing else it'll piss someone there off.

Ok, first off M$ did nothing wrong but defend there TOS and they are allowed to defend in anway they see fit. If they soley choose to ban a couple months before before a majority of ppl are due to renew, then so be it. And as far the good parrents and naughty kids defense thats called guilty by association. For the ppl who got baned for having games earley shame on the store for selling it earley and shame on you for being stupid enough to play it. As for me my console got baned so i got another one formated my HDD and redowload my Live account and remodded my 360. We all now the the possible outcome of our choices, the real question is are your man or woman enough to reap what you sowed! PEACE!

1) because they timed the console ban after many people renewed the sub expecting to use it with MW2 and ODST. I am in favour of the lawsuit because their detection method is so good that they could unban a console after a retest but won't, yet they will let your sub fees auto renew to your credit card...

2) seriously, do you think they are going to knock on your door? The suit mentioned here is for the unrefunded live subscription. No one is questioning the validity of tha ban with this law suit

3)That feature was advertised, included with new systems therefore it would be considered part of the included console software.

4) Do you know how a class action suit works?

5)I think the parents, heck many buy these instead of paying babysitters. Heck they prolly don't even know what this is all about, lol. The kids prolly tell them they are just fixing it...


ok, so if GM said you have to get your oil changed at a dealership or they will void your warranty, then they are defending their product by ensuring proper service and then that would be OK?

hmmm...

Give the people who can fine you thousands of dollars and put you in prison...your name and information over an Xbox Live banning? Um...no

Microsoft may have held information on these consoles for a while and chosen to choose now to ban, that is their choice, they have other commitments and November has always been ban season. They are defending their terms of use and protecting other live members. You really think your argument will stand up in court because I highly doubt it. Yes it's almost holiday season, yes there are big games coming, so what? Games are out every week, one could make that argument any week of the year (to me COD6 isn't a big deal, other games throughout the year have been).

Why would a banned user buy a new console with hdd when they have a hdd on their banned one? An arcade console did me just fine, a good bundle and selling off the unwanted stuff (inc. banned console) made money, not lost it. The timing of the bans is not an issue. The delayed ban tactics are not an issue.

Who's giving MS sympathy? We are pointing out the flaws in this case and finding a better reason/case. But I doubt there is one.

Actually they can't refuse warranted work unless they can prove that the modifications to your car caused the problem, i.e. you got an aftermarket stereo and your fuel pump breaks, if its not related it doesnt affect your warranty. thats how it is in texas anyway.

Maybe not every person can afford a new xbox, therefore the live account is useless.



------------------

I think the law firm would have a good case if they included the following:

-Forza 3 early play bans Permanent LIVE account suspensions, users can lose access to purchased DLC say if they changed consoles due to RROD or other mishap or just upgraded from a xenon to a jasper.
-Hard drive crippling
-Unable to stream videos to banned console


The fact of the matter is if you are banned and you actually are legit game buyer and you didn't mod the console or you bought the console used from a gamestop or such or any other mishap that gets your console perm banned, MS makes it hard to contact them. Calling 18004myxbox, well they will blow you off there too. MS makes it almost impossible to reverse the ban, nearly impossible to contact them and prove your are legit. I don't know if MS actually bans legit players, basically I am saying they do not give anyone a chance to prove them wrong really. You have to go through hoops to get through to them. They should have a ban appeal process on their web page where people can submit anything such as a game receipt, ie early forza players.


I will call or email the law firm to give them more details maybe they dont know.

I don't know why all you people come in here defending MS. They are an evil corp. They have stolen to get where they are, they are no better then the pirates the ban. Remember that lady that spilled coffee on her lap at McD's and sued and won, well duh we all know coffee is hot and it will burn if it spills on you. We don't need a label on a coffee cup saying "Hey dumbass this shit is hot don't spill it on yourself" Thats a bad lawsuit for example there and was won, so with that this lawsuit could have a hope.

I have a question also: (may sound stupid)

Isn't putting a new faceplate on your console "modifying" your CONSOLE. It does not say motherboard, or DVD drive. Console is the whole thing. What does it say in the TOS exactly. Does it say modify your DVD drive, or Motherboard to play COPIED games? Then why aren't blank CD's illegal??? This is such a THIN line. I can understand banning for playing PIRATED games, but not your own backups.

Or if I paint it isn't that modifying it?

What happens if I put better heatsink on my CPU and GPU isn't that modifying it? or a better fan to keep it cooler.

There is A LOT they can argue on this. But I think this is a bad idea.

Look im dissapointed that i got banned, we all are. But WE all knew what could happen, and it did. So now we sue M$, yeah great. It cost them millions to sort out thier badly made consoles and this could cost them millions as well. I dont care 2 shits if they loose millions or even billions! But I do love the Xbox and I can see them just taking it off the shelves. The new f/w will be here soon. If you cant wait then buy a Benq and flash it with a non-stealth version of ixtreme 1.41. They were crafty but just swallow your toungue and ride the storm

um did you not give personal info when you signed up for live
name adress cc numbers etc/???




for banning my 2 unmodded systems and others i know where banned without mods i hope they give it up
tired of companies over stepping

if you can see firmware great if you can see copied dvds greeat
but stop banning people not modded nad accept the mistake and fix them already
or go to hell and stop making junk systems





from what customer suport says all the above maybe not faceplate but all others above is groudns for ban
fan upgrades gpu cpu rrod fixes drive replacements abnormal voltage draws you name it its grounds for banning or flaggin that leadds to banning

And who says us modders aren't educated? That thar is sum gud lawyerin son.

Dude , it's not the point of being banned for pirating games. It's the point of being banned for modding your system.

MS doesn't let you use third party HD's, third party Memory cards. It's BS. Sony does. PLus the fact modifying your xbox to play Backups was the entire point to having blank cd's. Fine ban for PIRATING. That makes sense, and is justifiable. But don't ban for backing up your game, because if your cd scratches because the Xbox 360 does it, i am supposed to pay another 35 to 65 dollars on the same copy of the game, it's BS.

Or, send in the UPC label of your game and the Receipt where you bought to prove your COPIED game is legal and not pirated.




You can't be serious, painting my XBox 360 is cause for banning? That's bullshit. Absolute bullshit. And keeping the CPU cooler. Wow that is just BULLSHIT.

This to me Just sounds like a way to draw people out and get the to admit to doing something wrong and if it wasn't microsoft could turn around and counter and end up getting them for playing pirated software. I'd be a little scared of giving my name and info out to anyone. Just like sounds like some kind of trap to me.

People actually give their real addresses?

It varys in country, and in what you actually do. It's comparing apples and oranges so lets not go there.



Playing games early is against their TOS. We all know the street dates. You'll find that a lot of F3 players who were banned actually had a dodgy copy. I played early, by a day, I am fine. Others have played early by more and are fine.
HDD Crippling is a grey area as to the fairness of this however there are reasons they could use with regards to security of xbox live etc. as the consoles were modified to run unsigned content so now lose the right/ability to sign content.
Video streaming to a banned console works fine if you have the codec. As an extender it doesn't work but I can still stream movies and music to my banned consoles.

Those who claim to be blameless and banned all seem to be on here and all have the knowledge. I find it harder and harder to believe these "I was banned for no reason" or "I was banned for cutting a window in the side of my console" claims. However, they have a case and should take it up with Microsoft or the store they purchased it at.

Out of interest, what have Microsoft stolen?




Changing faceplate does not cause bans and is no cause for a ban. The faceplate is an accessory much like your controller, headset, av cable etc.

Blank CDs and DVDs are sold for more than just so you can pirate stuff. I use CDs and DVDs daily for backing up my files, creating installation discs for applications, issuing digital documentation, creating music CDs for people who have recorded their own stuff, making DVDs of "home movies". The line is not at all thin.

If you open your console you may be compromising the security of your console, regardless of if you add a fan, heatsink or whatever. This is enough ground for Microsoft to ban you to protect the security of xbox live and it's other users.

Haha the only people who make money on class action suits of this nature is the lawyers..

Though the idea of suing the shit out of Microsoft because we got caught doing stupid shit is a great idea in this economy, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone got permanently banned from Live! because of this ridiculous lawsuit. You have to take into account all of the legal shit Microsoft tied into there TOS, for example:

1) You own the hardware, you do not own the software wich is on the hardware or makes the hardware work, you are licensed by Microsoft to use the software wich in turn runs the hardware.. Shitty yes, legal yes, yours? Nope.. You can in fact legally replace the software that operates the hardware, if it ALL gets replaced. This is why projects like Xbox-Linux Free60 and libxenon are legal.

2) They do not cripple your save games, your Xbox can in fact still function as a gaming console. You just cant use your saves on another Xbox, this sadly is also perfectly legal. The xbox runs on a license system everything is hardcoded with DRM, If your console gets banned it can no longer sign personal content, therefore it cannot be used on another system.

3) Downloadable Content, again.. Licensing, You do not own the DLC, you own a license to use it. This license can be revoked at anytime for any number of reasons. If your gamertag is still active and you are using your DLC on the same xbox you have purchased it on, then it will still work on THAT xbox. If you are using it on a different xbox you have to be signed into live to use it.

4) Physical Media, this is where it kind of boggles me... But according to Microsoft/The Videogame Industry, You don't really own this. You own a license to use it in your game console, You can not make a digital copy unless authorized by the owner of the software. When you sell/trade/lend out your copy of the game, you are transfering your license to a 3rd party and are no longer legally allowed to use it, hence the reason you can not run it from your HDD anymore and a disc is needed in the drive.

Microsoft has everyone by the balls, They are a multi billion dollar corporation that employs hackers AND modders to battle everything that we throw at em. They know how to word everything in order to keep there asses out of trouble. Obviously Microsoft would do this seeing as its CEO is the richest pirate in the world. Gotta love a country where a company can start up by stealing an operating system, re-branding it, and earn billions.


[/rant]

the key words here are "xbox live", the hard drive install does not need it to function, it does not function as a result of xbox live. If you never connected to xbox live it would still work. In this way its more of a case of ownership. Let us not forget some countires do not have laws forbidding the modification of hardware you own. In most countries making a "personal" backup is a right by law.

You could argue that you pay for the liscence to use the hardware. It's just not so, you pay to physically own it, there's no "rental" or hardware liscencing agreement at the point of sale. You agree when you sign up to the live TOS to abide by the rules of the service or face forfieture of that service. You do not agree for them to remove functionality of the console that was sold as part of the package you bought.

Not everyone is a pirate, in some territories if some people took this to court microsoft would have to prove an infringer was indeed infirnging the copyright laws. Statutory right always will over ride a broad reaching EULA, or TOS if it's found that it infringes on a persons rights as a consumor.

And you have those poor people who try to save a few bucks buy getting a pre owned console from EB games gamestop etc etc only to find out 10 months later its banned because the store sold them a modified console that was pre owned. Technically the end user did not "knowingly or willfully" break the TOS.

Lastly, more importantly and why this case should go to court. How do we know that microsofts detection system does not produce false positives. There's no right to appeal, and you have no right way of having their enforcement policies and techniques reviewed by a third party.

Piracy effects the industry there's no dount about it. But companies need to learn punishing infringers does not work, it creates animosity, you'll never convert someone into a consumor that hates you. Unfortunatly a class action lawsuit like this is small potatoes for microsoft. They settle lawsuits everyday, they have the kind of capital to quietly settle the problematic ones before they ever get to a court. Unfortunaly the ONLY way to hurt a company as a big as microsoft and force a re evaluation of their operating policies is when a government agency takes intrest. And with the current climate regarding copyright infringement, its highly unlikley anyone will push the issue.

i did something that was against the toc's of microsoft. I pressed the button and said I agree to them. I didn't obey them! I got banned. End of. if you dont like thire toc's then dont accept them. buy a PS3 and buy your originals for that. sorry for being blunt but it is all there clearly in black and white

from microsofts own customer service
if you buy a controller that is not microsoft certified
a 3rd party fan or hdd
anything basically microsoft doesnt get money for you can get banned

painting your case doesnt get you banned but does void warentee



i will say a class action suit for xbl lstt time isnt going to hurt microcrap much
i want to see full blown suit over the hdd tampering and the false bannings
antitrust issues with the terms of use etc etc

I dont know about you but i still say i never signed anything never recorreded my voice agreeing to anything a button push to me that anyone can do doesnt mean i agreed to the new terms
my old terms of use i agreed to did not have the #20 line in it it has been added with last update or so was not included in terms 2 yearsa ago when i signed up for live and had it a big 48 hours lol i dotn remebr seeing it 2 monthas ago when i didi my 12month now getting wasted

To all those bitching about not being able to install to HD..give it up.. Microsoft is simply protecting their IP...
the console is banned, so they should continue to allow you to install pirated games on the HD???
It is being blocked BECAUSE you can use pirated games on it offline.. thats the entire reasoning...
They might not be able to stop you from using disk's but that doesn't mean they shouldn't stop you from using the HD installs...


And the ones bitching that they can't afford to get a new 360... WTF?? Why did you take that risk to begin with then?? It is stupid to mod a console you KNOW you can't replace and you KNOW will likely get banned and it is stupid to take said modded console on line to get caught..
Sorry but I have zero sympathy.. you made the choice so you must live with that choices consequences...


Now as to the lawsuit in particular...
So what if M$ chooses Nov??? they have NO obligation to choose a convenient month for pirates to bring the ban hammer. In fact, I suspect Nov and the imminent release of High profile games is a driving factor to USE Nov. What better way to get pirates legal than by depriving them of high profile games unless they go legit? It is not illegal and the case has zero merit.

Did anyone cruise through the lawfirms site? According to the info they provide on their site, they have 1 attorney. I'd think a respectable "go getter" law firm would have more then 1 attorney. Maybe some partners?

Ambulance chasing anyone?

While I don't agree with the lawsuit, some folks have brought up some very valid points in this thread. It's interesting to read and see what other folks think about this, how they feel about it, and what their perspective is about the subject.

My 2 cents here:
Crippling the hard drive - yeah pretty hoakie, but as someone mentioned, it's returning it to original functionality. (Or is it?) My question - if I go buy a new xbox today, does it have this functionality already or do I have to connect to Live for a downloaded update like the DiVX install?

If the xbox was your product and Live was your product - how could you determine who was playing a legitimit backup vs an illegal copied game? You can't. So it doesn't matter where you got your backup, the only recourse was to block all the consoles found playing backups. Legit or not. Don't know why folks love to beat that one up. Yes, some countries and even states allow you to make a backup of you property - but if a company trying to protect its product cannot determine which is which, they have no choice but to ban them all. Tough love there I think.

As for the lawsuit stating going after those who have not received a refund: well, your account is not banned. (Not going there with the gamer tag bans - different story). You can get another xbox and still use the product (Live). Not sure what MS will say if you call and state - I want to cancel my service - I'd like a prorated refund. Anyone have the official response?

I'd hate to see something like this effect the future of the Xbox console line. It may not as the Live service is a good money maker for MS - the hardware as we all know, is not a money maker for MS. (The consoles that is.) - Either way, I'm looking forward to a next generation xbox and all of the challenges it will bring with it to modding community.

Ok I'm done - just wanted to throw all that in here.

without agreeing or disagreeing with the possibility of a class-action lawsuit (because quite frankly, its still up in the air for me as I see both sides) but the law firm IS investigating the HDD crippling and corrupting of gamesaves/profiles as stated on their website. hxxp://www.abingtonlaw.com/Xbox-Live-class-action.html

"Additional *reported* problems resulting from the bans include, but are not necessarily limited to:
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with Xbox Live (HDD functionality for example),
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with piracy,
* Obtaining information from Xbox consoles without permission of the owner,
* There are other problems/consequenses associated with these bans that have been reported here and elsewhere. "


Just wanted to add this in here since so many people claim this should be their focus (and I agree) but it will only become their focus if we speak up and tell them instead of griping about it here.

one can argue that you are FORCED to:

1. PAY and play on their xbox live service when there no alternative and xlink crippled on purpose (antitrust)

2. take updates with new games, no option around it. and by doing so crippling your console.

if you were not forced to use live noone would accept the eula

also corrupting YOUR keyvault and saves cant be legal. even tho they made the key you bought it with the console. (see 1)

20. Changes to the Service; If We Cancel the Service.

We may change the Service or delete or discontinue features, games, or other content at any time and for any reason (or no reason). We may cancel or suspend your Service at any time. Our cancellation or suspension may be without cause and without notice. Upon Service cancellation, your right to use the Service stops right away. Once the Service is cancelled or suspended, any data you have stored on the Service may not be retrieved later. Our cancellation of the Service will not alter your obligation to pay all charges made to your billing account. If we cancel the Service in its entirety without cause, then we will refund to you on a pro-rata basis the amount of payment that you have made corresponding to the portion of your Service remaining at the time ofcancellation.

I see features being the marketplace and stuff like that games being arcade downloads and other content being netflix which is all related to xbox live or use of xbox live but not the xbox it self. when did using windows media center on xbox affect xbox live or installing games to the hdd affect xbox live it is called "Xbox LIVE and Games for Windows LIVE Terms of Use" not xbox terms of use.

In my eyes even tho i am not a lawyer it should state we can disable your offline ability when you violate the online Terms of Use which it don't.

good luck with your groundless lawsuit, I hope your lawyer is slick enough to win.

I was under the impression that if you sign a contract (or agree to a virtual TOS) while you were intoxicated, then the contract is void.

Maybe we should all claim drunk! lol

You guys arent understanding the purpose for the law suite. Its all about the timing of the ban. For example ..imagine me with a modded system, but I dont have a gold account, only silver. So, when Halo or MW2 comes out and I want to play them, so I go and purchace a gold account. Now, M$ knew my system was modded earlier in the year, but they wait until there is a game I want to play on live before the do a "million ban march". Now because I dont want to waste my live gold sub, Im forced to buy a new system ..which is even more revenue for m$.

Basically saying.. why wasnt the "million ban march" in the spring/summer when there was no good games coming out!

Additional *reported* problems resulting from the bans include, but are not necessarily limited to:
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with Xbox Live (HDD functionality for example),
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with piracy,
* Obtaining information from Xbox consoles without permission of the owner,
* There are other problems/consequenses associated with these bans that have been reported here and elsewhere.

straight from class action website

They weren't a part of the original launch consoles, but every console currently sold has this function and it is now considered part of the hardware. Technically they ARE crippling the functionality of a piece of hardware that I own. (FWIW, one of my consoles was banned a couple of years ago, I was not part of the recent ban wave and I do have an unmodded console).

Please remember that a EULA or TOS are neither laws nor written in stone. Companies can change them at any point, and the public has no choice in the matter unless the courts get involved. Let the courts decide if MS's timing was illegal or just good business practice.

Not sure about this but havent people been saying ban waves happen this time every year?

I will eat my shoes if they win this case......

being banned for modified dvd drive... = no win easy... its in the TOS for christ sakes...lol so you wont win with that argument...

the crippling of the hdd tho... is where they have the chance to win the argument...just because u are banned from live because of *&backups* is one thing, disabling the entire system from being able to play offline.... is not a good thing for M$

show me in the TOS or anything where it says anything about the HDD crippling....

(they probly have some small print at the bottom of the tos they slipped in last patch to say *we have the right to fuck up your system at will*

<3 the competition even more because of micronazis pathetic moves!

Hmm not sure if this was pointed out since I did not go through all the pages but if you sign up to be part of the Class Action Law Suit to 'get back' at Microsoft, you're basically signing up saying 'Yes I admit I have a Modded Console!'

I don't think Microsoft should have to refund the money for the Xbox Live Service time not used. You paid for the Xbox Live Service and it's still there, you just don't have an Xbox that can go on Live (because the terms of service was broken by using a modded console online).

I'm not going to argue with your other points, although I have issues with them as well.
The fact that MS and the videogame industry as a whole insist that we are licensing the video game doesn't matter. The law is what matters. Stop perpetuating the myth that we don't own a video game. We do. Game publishers are currently trying to end the secondary market (reselling of video games), they just haven't come up with a tactic that the public will stomach yet, be it single use codes or legislation that would force retailers to pay a portion of the game sales back to the publisher. We, as the buying public, don't have to stand for these strong-armed tactics. Force the issue with your wallets.